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Why would the Pakistan airspace closure cancel flights not headed to Pakistan itself?


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23












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
    $endgroup$
    – Lumis
    15 hours ago
















23












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
    $endgroup$
    – Lumis
    15 hours ago














23












23








23





$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.







airline-operations airspace flight-path pakistan






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 23 hours ago







Machavity

















asked yesterday









MachavityMachavity

2,2992632




2,2992632








  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
    $endgroup$
    – Lumis
    15 hours ago














  • 7




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
    $endgroup$
    – Lumis
    15 hours ago








7




7




$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
yesterday




$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
yesterday












$begingroup$
Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
$endgroup$
– Lumis
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
Consider the fact that all flight routes that were planned had to be handed in again and be accepted. Changes result in necessary fuel and new time slots for takoff and landing airport. This has to be recalulated and might take some time
$endgroup$
– Lumis
15 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















33












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it cannot fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    yesterday








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    12 hours ago



















14












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday



















12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
    $endgroup$
    – Ister
    19 hours ago



















6












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Dodd
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago











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4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes








4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









33












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it cannot fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    yesterday








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    12 hours ago
















33












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it cannot fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    yesterday








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    12 hours ago














33












33








33





$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it cannot fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it cannot fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 15 hours ago









Juan Jimenez

3,254425




3,254425










answered yesterday









jwentingjwenting

11.7k13045




11.7k13045












  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    yesterday








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    12 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    yesterday








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    yesterday






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    12 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hampton
yesterday




$begingroup$
Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hampton
yesterday




1




1




$begingroup$
* Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
$endgroup$
– user189035
yesterday






$begingroup$
* Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
$endgroup$
– user189035
yesterday






1




1




$begingroup$
I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
$endgroup$
– zymhan
yesterday




$begingroup$
I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
$endgroup$
– zymhan
yesterday




4




4




$begingroup$
@JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




$begingroup$
@JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




1




1




$begingroup$
@Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
$endgroup$
– John Ray
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Sean - Sorry, I meant that since MH17 airlines now want to leave a large buffer zone around any conflict areas.
$endgroup$
– John Ray
12 hours ago











14












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday
















14












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday














14












14








14





$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered yesterday









BowlOfRedBowlOfRed

3,62911026




3,62911026








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
yesterday




$begingroup$
Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
yesterday




1




1




$begingroup$
It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
yesterday




$begingroup$
It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
yesterday











12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
    $endgroup$
    – Ister
    19 hours ago
















12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
    $endgroup$
    – Ister
    19 hours ago














12












12








12





$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.









share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered yesterday









FreeManFreeMan

7,023955121




7,023955121












  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
    $endgroup$
    – Ister
    19 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
    $endgroup$
    – Ister
    19 hours ago
















$begingroup$
If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




$begingroup$
If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




1




1




$begingroup$
@Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
$endgroup$
– Ister
19 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Sean it's not so simple. You need to arrange the landing and take-off slots, you also increase costs and schedule significantly.
$endgroup$
– Ister
19 hours ago











6












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Dodd
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago
















6












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Dodd
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago














6












6








6





$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$



There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday









ymb1

66.4k7211353




66.4k7211353






New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered yesterday









Stephen KennedyStephen Kennedy

1613




1613




New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Dodd
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Dodd
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




$begingroup$
Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
$endgroup$
– Sean
yesterday




2




2




$begingroup$
That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
$endgroup$
– Michael Dodd
16 hours ago




$begingroup$
That would also explain why certain airlines, most notably the Taiwanese airlines China Airlines and Eva Air, don't fly over PRC airspace. Given the political sensitivity between the two countries at the moment and the pressure the PRC is imposing on airlines regarding the wording of Taiwan, it's highly doubtful that any Taiwan-registered airline would ever be granted permission to use PRC airspace.
$endgroup$
– Michael Dodd
16 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Sean: I noted in my comment on another answer that Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive, and Thai Airways avoided Iranian airspace even before the closure. If you don't want to overfly Iran, and you don't want to overfly the Middle East, then going towards the Arabian Sea doesn't help you that much.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
14 hours ago


















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