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Can making a creature unable to attack, after it has been assigned as an attacker, remove it from combat?

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8

1

Kulrath Knight has an effect that states 'Creatures your opponents control with counters on them can't attack or block.' So a creature is assigned as an attacker and subsequently gets a counter placed on it prior to combat resolution, does that remove the creature from combat?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

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  Related: boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/7343/…
  
  – GendoIkari
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @GendoIkari close-enough that it might be a dupe, but this one is specifically asking about attacking and not blocking so I figured it was worth an answer. Plus there is clean/clear rule in CR so why not.
  
  – Malco
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Malco Yeah I don't think it's a duplicate; although there could easily be another question that these could then be both duplicates of. But unless this same basic question pops up a few more times in a few more forms; I don't think there's a need for such a question.
  
  – GendoIkari
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


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  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A -1/-1 counter can remove a creature from combat (by killing it), but I suspect that that's not what you meant.
  
  – Arcanist Lupus
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @ArcanistLupus It's the interaction with Kulrath Knight's ability "Creatures your opponents control with counters on them can't attack or block." that Bill is referring to, asking if making a creature unable to attack after it was declared as attacking invalidates and reverses that attack (I think it does in YuGiOh and causes confusion for players coming from that game)
  
  – Andrew
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 7 more comments

8

1

Kulrath Knight has an effect that states 'Creatures your opponents control with counters on them can't attack or block.' So a creature is assigned as an attacker and subsequently gets a counter placed on it prior to combat resolution, does that remove the creature from combat?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Related: boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/7343/…
  
  – GendoIkari
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @GendoIkari close-enough that it might be a dupe, but this one is specifically asking about attacking and not blocking so I figured it was worth an answer. Plus there is clean/clear rule in CR so why not.
  
  – Malco
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Malco Yeah I don't think it's a duplicate; although there could easily be another question that these could then be both duplicates of. But unless this same basic question pops up a few more times in a few more forms; I don't think there's a need for such a question.
  
  – GendoIkari
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A -1/-1 counter can remove a creature from combat (by killing it), but I suspect that that's not what you meant.
  
  – Arcanist Lupus
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @ArcanistLupus It's the interaction with Kulrath Knight's ability "Creatures your opponents control with counters on them can't attack or block." that Bill is referring to, asking if making a creature unable to attack after it was declared as attacking invalidates and reverses that attack (I think it does in YuGiOh and causes confusion for players coming from that game)
  
  – Andrew
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 7 more comments

Kulrath Knight has an effect that states 'Creatures your opponents control with counters on them can't attack or block.' So a creature is assigned as an attacker and subsequently gets a counter placed on it prior to combat resolution, does that remove the creature from combat?

magic-the-gathering

share|improve this question

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

share|improve this question

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

share|improve this question

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

edited 15 hours ago

Glorfindel

4,86611339

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

asked yesterday

BillBill

40218

2 Answers
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13

No, making a creature "unable to attack or block" after attackers have been declared does not remove it from combat.

An ability that says "Creatures can't Attack or Block" means that they can not be declared as blockers or attackers. If they are already attacking or blocking it is too late and they will not be removed from combat.

506.4a: Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

add a comment | 

3

No, creatures that are already declared as attacking (or blocking) are not removed from combat because they could no longer be legally declared as an attacker or blocker. That is only checked when declaring the attack or block, and never again for that combat. This is covered by the comprehensive rules(Emphasis mine):

506.4a Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

There are effects that will remove a creature from combat, these though all specifically say they do so, on cards like Maze of Ith, Reconnaissance or Illusionist's Gambit. The ways that a creature CAN be removed from combat are spelled out here:

506.4 A permanent is removed from combat if it leaves the battlefield, if its controller changes, if it phases out, if an effect specifically removes it from combat, if it's a planeswalker that's being attacked and stops being a planeswalker, or if it's an attacking or blocking creature that regenerates (see rule 701.14) or stops being a creature. A creature that's removed from combat stops being an attacking, blocking, blocked, and/or unblocked creature. A planeswalker that's removed from combat stops being attacked.

There are also effects that can get around combat restrictions, usually effects that force a creature into play tapped and attacking, this lets you get around effects like Ensnaring Bridge with bigger ninjas, like
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, or past effects like Crawlspace by creating tokens when attacking with Hero of Bladehold or Tilonalli's Summoner. If an effect causes creatures to enter with a counter, say Rhythm of the Wild it will also bypass Kulrath Knight that turn.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop does not explicitly say it removes creatures from combat (and the foil hilariously lacks all of the "reminder" text entirely), but since there's no other logically reasonable interpretation of the card, there is a ruling to that effect.
  
  – Kevin
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin It is interesting that they specifically mention it happening before state-based actions are checked. If they hadn't, then creatures would still be removed from combat when the combat step ends, but state-based actions would not be checked again before the cleanup step. I haven't found any cards for which this would make a difference though.
  
  – Fax
  12 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin it does however move the game out of the combat step, so I'd say it less removes the creature from combat as causes that combat to cease to exist.
  
  – Andrew
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop's text is just reminder text, it does not list everything that happens. There is a full section of the rules (716) that describes how ending the turn works. And in fact 716.1b explicitly says "Remove all creatures and planeswalkers from combat"
  
  – murgatroid99♦
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

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13

No, making a creature "unable to attack or block" after attackers have been declared does not remove it from combat.

An ability that says "Creatures can't Attack or Block" means that they can not be declared as blockers or attackers. If they are already attacking or blocking it is too late and they will not be removed from combat.

506.4a: Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

add a comment | 

13

No, making a creature "unable to attack or block" after attackers have been declared does not remove it from combat.

An ability that says "Creatures can't Attack or Block" means that they can not be declared as blockers or attackers. If they are already attacking or blocking it is too late and they will not be removed from combat.

506.4a: Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

add a comment | 

No, making a creature "unable to attack or block" after attackers have been declared does not remove it from combat.

An ability that says "Creatures can't Attack or Block" means that they can not be declared as blockers or attackers. If they are already attacking or blocking it is too late and they will not be removed from combat.

506.4a: Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

share|improve this answer

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

edited yesterday

doppelgreener

16.1k858122

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

answered yesterday

MalcoMalco

6,6961454

3

No, creatures that are already declared as attacking (or blocking) are not removed from combat because they could no longer be legally declared as an attacker or blocker. That is only checked when declaring the attack or block, and never again for that combat. This is covered by the comprehensive rules(Emphasis mine):

506.4a Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

There are effects that will remove a creature from combat, these though all specifically say they do so, on cards like Maze of Ith, Reconnaissance or Illusionist's Gambit. The ways that a creature CAN be removed from combat are spelled out here:

506.4 A permanent is removed from combat if it leaves the battlefield, if its controller changes, if it phases out, if an effect specifically removes it from combat, if it's a planeswalker that's being attacked and stops being a planeswalker, or if it's an attacking or blocking creature that regenerates (see rule 701.14) or stops being a creature. A creature that's removed from combat stops being an attacking, blocking, blocked, and/or unblocked creature. A planeswalker that's removed from combat stops being attacked.

There are also effects that can get around combat restrictions, usually effects that force a creature into play tapped and attacking, this lets you get around effects like Ensnaring Bridge with bigger ninjas, like
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, or past effects like Crawlspace by creating tokens when attacking with Hero of Bladehold or Tilonalli's Summoner. If an effect causes creatures to enter with a counter, say Rhythm of the Wild it will also bypass Kulrath Knight that turn.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop does not explicitly say it removes creatures from combat (and the foil hilariously lacks all of the "reminder" text entirely), but since there's no other logically reasonable interpretation of the card, there is a ruling to that effect.
  
  – Kevin
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin It is interesting that they specifically mention it happening before state-based actions are checked. If they hadn't, then creatures would still be removed from combat when the combat step ends, but state-based actions would not be checked again before the cleanup step. I haven't found any cards for which this would make a difference though.
  
  – Fax
  12 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin it does however move the game out of the combat step, so I'd say it less removes the creature from combat as causes that combat to cease to exist.
  
  – Andrew
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop's text is just reminder text, it does not list everything that happens. There is a full section of the rules (716) that describes how ending the turn works. And in fact 716.1b explicitly says "Remove all creatures and planeswalkers from combat"
  
  – murgatroid99♦
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

No, creatures that are already declared as attacking (or blocking) are not removed from combat because they could no longer be legally declared as an attacker or blocker. That is only checked when declaring the attack or block, and never again for that combat. This is covered by the comprehensive rules(Emphasis mine):

506.4a Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

There are effects that will remove a creature from combat, these though all specifically say they do so, on cards like Maze of Ith, Reconnaissance or Illusionist's Gambit. The ways that a creature CAN be removed from combat are spelled out here:

506.4 A permanent is removed from combat if it leaves the battlefield, if its controller changes, if it phases out, if an effect specifically removes it from combat, if it's a planeswalker that's being attacked and stops being a planeswalker, or if it's an attacking or blocking creature that regenerates (see rule 701.14) or stops being a creature. A creature that's removed from combat stops being an attacking, blocking, blocked, and/or unblocked creature. A planeswalker that's removed from combat stops being attacked.

There are also effects that can get around combat restrictions, usually effects that force a creature into play tapped and attacking, this lets you get around effects like Ensnaring Bridge with bigger ninjas, like
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, or past effects like Crawlspace by creating tokens when attacking with Hero of Bladehold or Tilonalli's Summoner. If an effect causes creatures to enter with a counter, say Rhythm of the Wild it will also bypass Kulrath Knight that turn.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop does not explicitly say it removes creatures from combat (and the foil hilariously lacks all of the "reminder" text entirely), but since there's no other logically reasonable interpretation of the card, there is a ruling to that effect.
  
  – Kevin
  yesterday
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin It is interesting that they specifically mention it happening before state-based actions are checked. If they hadn't, then creatures would still be removed from combat when the combat step ends, but state-based actions would not be checked again before the cleanup step. I haven't found any cards for which this would make a difference though.
  
  – Fax
  12 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @Kevin it does however move the game out of the combat step, so I'd say it less removes the creature from combat as causes that combat to cease to exist.
  
  – Andrew
  12 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Time Stop's text is just reminder text, it does not list everything that happens. There is a full section of the rules (716) that describes how ending the turn works. And in fact 716.1b explicitly says "Remove all creatures and planeswalkers from combat"
  
  – murgatroid99♦
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

No, creatures that are already declared as attacking (or blocking) are not removed from combat because they could no longer be legally declared as an attacker or blocker. That is only checked when declaring the attack or block, and never again for that combat. This is covered by the comprehensive rules(Emphasis mine):

506.4a Once a creature has been declared as an attacking or blocking creature, spells or abilities that would have kept that creature from attacking or blocking don't remove the creature from combat.

There are effects that will remove a creature from combat, these though all specifically say they do so, on cards like Maze of Ith, Reconnaissance or Illusionist's Gambit. The ways that a creature CAN be removed from combat are spelled out here:

506.4 A permanent is removed from combat if it leaves the battlefield, if its controller changes, if it phases out, if an effect specifically removes it from combat, if it's a planeswalker that's being attacked and stops being a planeswalker, or if it's an attacking or blocking creature that regenerates (see rule 701.14) or stops being a creature. A creature that's removed from combat stops being an attacking, blocking, blocked, and/or unblocked creature. A planeswalker that's removed from combat stops being attacked.

There are also effects that can get around combat restrictions, usually effects that force a creature into play tapped and attacking, this lets you get around effects like Ensnaring Bridge with bigger ninjas, like
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, or past effects like Crawlspace by creating tokens when attacking with Hero of Bladehold or Tilonalli's Summoner. If an effect causes creatures to enter with a counter, say Rhythm of the Wild it will also bypass Kulrath Knight that turn.

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

share|improve this answer

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838

answered yesterday

AndrewAndrew

5,279838