Does fast page mode apply to ROM?ROM programs on the Sony MSX HitBit HB-501Restore original ROM on PalmOne...

What is the most triangles you can make from a capital "H" and 3 straight lines?

What's a good word to describe a public place that looks like it wouldn't be rough?

Can an insurance company drop you after receiving a bill and refusing to pay?

A universal method for left-hand alignment of a sequence of equalities

Why is "points exist" not an axiom in geometry?

Would a National Army of mercenaries be a feasible idea?

Why avoid shared user accounts?

Jumping Numbers

How to convert a ListContourPlot into primitive usable with Graphics3D?

How to prevent cleaner from hanging my lock screen in Ubuntu 16.04

Why does a metal block make a shrill sound but not a wooden block upon hammering?

What to do if authors don't respond to my serious concerns about their paper?

Word or phrase for showing great skill at something without formal training in it

Eww, those bytes are gross

How to acknowledge an embarrassing job interview, now that I work directly with the interviewer?

Explain the objections to these measures against human trafficking

Why zero tolerance on nudity in space?

Can a person refuse a presidential pardon?

Cryptic with missing capitals

Why does String.replaceAll() work differently in Java 8 from Java 9?

Is a debit card dangerous for an account with low balance and no overdraft protection?

Why would the Pakistan airspace closure cancel flights not headed to Pakistan itself?

Caruana vs Carlsen game 10 (WCC) why not 18...Nxb6?

insert EOF statement before the last line of file



Does fast page mode apply to ROM?


ROM programs on the Sony MSX HitBit HB-501Restore original ROM on PalmOne m515Historical price of ROMSpeed of early ROM versus RAM chipsHow fast is memcpy on the Z80?How to debug BIOS ROM incompatibility?When did CPUs start using page mode DRAM?Can fast page mode depend on the first data retrieved?What home computer was the first to use a external ROM cartridge?For fast scrolling DOS games, when was Mode13h preferred over Mode X?













4















Starting with the 4116, RAM chips from the late seventies supported fast page mode, where if you were reading nearby – particularly, successive – words, you didn't need to supply both row and column address each time, making second and subsequent words much faster to access. This was used to good effect by some machines, e.g. the video circuitry in the ZX Spectrum.



It seems to me that logically this should also apply to ROM, and would have been useful for some purposes; even if off-the-shelf CPUs of the seventies and eighties didn't have the ability to take advantage of it, at least it could've been used for fetching bitmaps for cartridge games. But I haven't seen it mentioned at all, and Google doesn't seem to have heard of the notion.



Does fast page mode apply to ROM? If so, did any historical machines use it? If not, why not?










share|improve this question



























    4















    Starting with the 4116, RAM chips from the late seventies supported fast page mode, where if you were reading nearby – particularly, successive – words, you didn't need to supply both row and column address each time, making second and subsequent words much faster to access. This was used to good effect by some machines, e.g. the video circuitry in the ZX Spectrum.



    It seems to me that logically this should also apply to ROM, and would have been useful for some purposes; even if off-the-shelf CPUs of the seventies and eighties didn't have the ability to take advantage of it, at least it could've been used for fetching bitmaps for cartridge games. But I haven't seen it mentioned at all, and Google doesn't seem to have heard of the notion.



    Does fast page mode apply to ROM? If so, did any historical machines use it? If not, why not?










    share|improve this question

























      4












      4








      4








      Starting with the 4116, RAM chips from the late seventies supported fast page mode, where if you were reading nearby – particularly, successive – words, you didn't need to supply both row and column address each time, making second and subsequent words much faster to access. This was used to good effect by some machines, e.g. the video circuitry in the ZX Spectrum.



      It seems to me that logically this should also apply to ROM, and would have been useful for some purposes; even if off-the-shelf CPUs of the seventies and eighties didn't have the ability to take advantage of it, at least it could've been used for fetching bitmaps for cartridge games. But I haven't seen it mentioned at all, and Google doesn't seem to have heard of the notion.



      Does fast page mode apply to ROM? If so, did any historical machines use it? If not, why not?










      share|improve this question














      Starting with the 4116, RAM chips from the late seventies supported fast page mode, where if you were reading nearby – particularly, successive – words, you didn't need to supply both row and column address each time, making second and subsequent words much faster to access. This was used to good effect by some machines, e.g. the video circuitry in the ZX Spectrum.



      It seems to me that logically this should also apply to ROM, and would have been useful for some purposes; even if off-the-shelf CPUs of the seventies and eighties didn't have the ability to take advantage of it, at least it could've been used for fetching bitmaps for cartridge games. But I haven't seen it mentioned at all, and Google doesn't seem to have heard of the notion.



      Does fast page mode apply to ROM? If so, did any historical machines use it? If not, why not?







      memory rom performance






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 12 hours ago









      rwallacerwallace

      9,313446137




      9,313446137






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          9















          Does fast page mode apply to ROM?




          No. Why should they?



          You're missing one step to start with in your chain of thoughts. (Fast) Page Mode is an improvement to the address multiplex protocol dynamic RAM uses. As such it isn't a general improvement, but a relative one, reducing the overhead the address multiplexing implies.



          Address multiplexing was introduced to dynamic RAM by means of the internal organisation needed to handle its RAM cells content (see below for a detailed discussion). Even with the improvement of Page Mode it still suffers from access penalty compared to non multiplexed access.



          ROM (and SRAM) did never went that way, as neither needs to use multiplexed addressing, but 'flat' addressing - and wide data words. Adding it would mean to further break down the speed of already slow ROM devices. Not anything system designers desire.





          Why do DRAM use address multiplexing?



          DRAM needs to refresh its content in cyclic manner. For a 4 KiBit RAM, this would mean 4096 refresh cycles within the data retention time. A typical guaranteed retention time for a 1973 DRAM, like the MK4096, is 2 ms. With a cell based addressing (12 bit 'flat' address) and a cycle time of 500 ns (MK4096-11), 102% of all cycles would need to be refresh cycles, effectively leaving no space for data access while at the same time violating the specifications.



          To reduce number of refresh cycles needed, not a single cell is read during a read/refresh cycle, but a whole line of cells (64 for MK4096) is read and written back. As a result now only 128 refresh cycles are needed within 2 ms, an overhead of just 3,2% of all cycles, leaving 96.8% for data access. Or in mathematical terms, O=N is turned into O=SQR(N). An incredible reduction, isn't it?



          A drawback of such a line orientated access is that it now has to work in two steps, first reading a line, next selecting the data to be outputed. Of course this can be done with an address of 12 bits 'flat' delivered via 12 address lines, the second half is not needed until the line read has been done.



          So Mostek's improvement over Intel's 1103 was to turn this internal mechanic into an advantage to reduce pin count by multiplexing the address in a way, that the needed line address comes first, to be used to read the line and then the data address within the line to select whatever is to be signalled on the data out pin(s). Now DRAM could be made as small as 16 pin but still hold 4 KiBit of Data.






          share|improve this answer

































            3














            Most ROMs didn't break addressing into columns and rows, they just took a straight address off the address bus. So, there would be no reason for them to do this.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "648"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9281%2fdoes-fast-page-mode-apply-to-rom%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              9















              Does fast page mode apply to ROM?




              No. Why should they?



              You're missing one step to start with in your chain of thoughts. (Fast) Page Mode is an improvement to the address multiplex protocol dynamic RAM uses. As such it isn't a general improvement, but a relative one, reducing the overhead the address multiplexing implies.



              Address multiplexing was introduced to dynamic RAM by means of the internal organisation needed to handle its RAM cells content (see below for a detailed discussion). Even with the improvement of Page Mode it still suffers from access penalty compared to non multiplexed access.



              ROM (and SRAM) did never went that way, as neither needs to use multiplexed addressing, but 'flat' addressing - and wide data words. Adding it would mean to further break down the speed of already slow ROM devices. Not anything system designers desire.





              Why do DRAM use address multiplexing?



              DRAM needs to refresh its content in cyclic manner. For a 4 KiBit RAM, this would mean 4096 refresh cycles within the data retention time. A typical guaranteed retention time for a 1973 DRAM, like the MK4096, is 2 ms. With a cell based addressing (12 bit 'flat' address) and a cycle time of 500 ns (MK4096-11), 102% of all cycles would need to be refresh cycles, effectively leaving no space for data access while at the same time violating the specifications.



              To reduce number of refresh cycles needed, not a single cell is read during a read/refresh cycle, but a whole line of cells (64 for MK4096) is read and written back. As a result now only 128 refresh cycles are needed within 2 ms, an overhead of just 3,2% of all cycles, leaving 96.8% for data access. Or in mathematical terms, O=N is turned into O=SQR(N). An incredible reduction, isn't it?



              A drawback of such a line orientated access is that it now has to work in two steps, first reading a line, next selecting the data to be outputed. Of course this can be done with an address of 12 bits 'flat' delivered via 12 address lines, the second half is not needed until the line read has been done.



              So Mostek's improvement over Intel's 1103 was to turn this internal mechanic into an advantage to reduce pin count by multiplexing the address in a way, that the needed line address comes first, to be used to read the line and then the data address within the line to select whatever is to be signalled on the data out pin(s). Now DRAM could be made as small as 16 pin but still hold 4 KiBit of Data.






              share|improve this answer






























                9















                Does fast page mode apply to ROM?




                No. Why should they?



                You're missing one step to start with in your chain of thoughts. (Fast) Page Mode is an improvement to the address multiplex protocol dynamic RAM uses. As such it isn't a general improvement, but a relative one, reducing the overhead the address multiplexing implies.



                Address multiplexing was introduced to dynamic RAM by means of the internal organisation needed to handle its RAM cells content (see below for a detailed discussion). Even with the improvement of Page Mode it still suffers from access penalty compared to non multiplexed access.



                ROM (and SRAM) did never went that way, as neither needs to use multiplexed addressing, but 'flat' addressing - and wide data words. Adding it would mean to further break down the speed of already slow ROM devices. Not anything system designers desire.





                Why do DRAM use address multiplexing?



                DRAM needs to refresh its content in cyclic manner. For a 4 KiBit RAM, this would mean 4096 refresh cycles within the data retention time. A typical guaranteed retention time for a 1973 DRAM, like the MK4096, is 2 ms. With a cell based addressing (12 bit 'flat' address) and a cycle time of 500 ns (MK4096-11), 102% of all cycles would need to be refresh cycles, effectively leaving no space for data access while at the same time violating the specifications.



                To reduce number of refresh cycles needed, not a single cell is read during a read/refresh cycle, but a whole line of cells (64 for MK4096) is read and written back. As a result now only 128 refresh cycles are needed within 2 ms, an overhead of just 3,2% of all cycles, leaving 96.8% for data access. Or in mathematical terms, O=N is turned into O=SQR(N). An incredible reduction, isn't it?



                A drawback of such a line orientated access is that it now has to work in two steps, first reading a line, next selecting the data to be outputed. Of course this can be done with an address of 12 bits 'flat' delivered via 12 address lines, the second half is not needed until the line read has been done.



                So Mostek's improvement over Intel's 1103 was to turn this internal mechanic into an advantage to reduce pin count by multiplexing the address in a way, that the needed line address comes first, to be used to read the line and then the data address within the line to select whatever is to be signalled on the data out pin(s). Now DRAM could be made as small as 16 pin but still hold 4 KiBit of Data.






                share|improve this answer




























                  9












                  9








                  9








                  Does fast page mode apply to ROM?




                  No. Why should they?



                  You're missing one step to start with in your chain of thoughts. (Fast) Page Mode is an improvement to the address multiplex protocol dynamic RAM uses. As such it isn't a general improvement, but a relative one, reducing the overhead the address multiplexing implies.



                  Address multiplexing was introduced to dynamic RAM by means of the internal organisation needed to handle its RAM cells content (see below for a detailed discussion). Even with the improvement of Page Mode it still suffers from access penalty compared to non multiplexed access.



                  ROM (and SRAM) did never went that way, as neither needs to use multiplexed addressing, but 'flat' addressing - and wide data words. Adding it would mean to further break down the speed of already slow ROM devices. Not anything system designers desire.





                  Why do DRAM use address multiplexing?



                  DRAM needs to refresh its content in cyclic manner. For a 4 KiBit RAM, this would mean 4096 refresh cycles within the data retention time. A typical guaranteed retention time for a 1973 DRAM, like the MK4096, is 2 ms. With a cell based addressing (12 bit 'flat' address) and a cycle time of 500 ns (MK4096-11), 102% of all cycles would need to be refresh cycles, effectively leaving no space for data access while at the same time violating the specifications.



                  To reduce number of refresh cycles needed, not a single cell is read during a read/refresh cycle, but a whole line of cells (64 for MK4096) is read and written back. As a result now only 128 refresh cycles are needed within 2 ms, an overhead of just 3,2% of all cycles, leaving 96.8% for data access. Or in mathematical terms, O=N is turned into O=SQR(N). An incredible reduction, isn't it?



                  A drawback of such a line orientated access is that it now has to work in two steps, first reading a line, next selecting the data to be outputed. Of course this can be done with an address of 12 bits 'flat' delivered via 12 address lines, the second half is not needed until the line read has been done.



                  So Mostek's improvement over Intel's 1103 was to turn this internal mechanic into an advantage to reduce pin count by multiplexing the address in a way, that the needed line address comes first, to be used to read the line and then the data address within the line to select whatever is to be signalled on the data out pin(s). Now DRAM could be made as small as 16 pin but still hold 4 KiBit of Data.






                  share|improve this answer
















                  Does fast page mode apply to ROM?




                  No. Why should they?



                  You're missing one step to start with in your chain of thoughts. (Fast) Page Mode is an improvement to the address multiplex protocol dynamic RAM uses. As such it isn't a general improvement, but a relative one, reducing the overhead the address multiplexing implies.



                  Address multiplexing was introduced to dynamic RAM by means of the internal organisation needed to handle its RAM cells content (see below for a detailed discussion). Even with the improvement of Page Mode it still suffers from access penalty compared to non multiplexed access.



                  ROM (and SRAM) did never went that way, as neither needs to use multiplexed addressing, but 'flat' addressing - and wide data words. Adding it would mean to further break down the speed of already slow ROM devices. Not anything system designers desire.





                  Why do DRAM use address multiplexing?



                  DRAM needs to refresh its content in cyclic manner. For a 4 KiBit RAM, this would mean 4096 refresh cycles within the data retention time. A typical guaranteed retention time for a 1973 DRAM, like the MK4096, is 2 ms. With a cell based addressing (12 bit 'flat' address) and a cycle time of 500 ns (MK4096-11), 102% of all cycles would need to be refresh cycles, effectively leaving no space for data access while at the same time violating the specifications.



                  To reduce number of refresh cycles needed, not a single cell is read during a read/refresh cycle, but a whole line of cells (64 for MK4096) is read and written back. As a result now only 128 refresh cycles are needed within 2 ms, an overhead of just 3,2% of all cycles, leaving 96.8% for data access. Or in mathematical terms, O=N is turned into O=SQR(N). An incredible reduction, isn't it?



                  A drawback of such a line orientated access is that it now has to work in two steps, first reading a line, next selecting the data to be outputed. Of course this can be done with an address of 12 bits 'flat' delivered via 12 address lines, the second half is not needed until the line read has been done.



                  So Mostek's improvement over Intel's 1103 was to turn this internal mechanic into an advantage to reduce pin count by multiplexing the address in a way, that the needed line address comes first, to be used to read the line and then the data address within the line to select whatever is to be signalled on the data out pin(s). Now DRAM could be made as small as 16 pin but still hold 4 KiBit of Data.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 10 hours ago

























                  answered 10 hours ago









                  RaffzahnRaffzahn

                  52.2k6123210




                  52.2k6123210























                      3














                      Most ROMs didn't break addressing into columns and rows, they just took a straight address off the address bus. So, there would be no reason for them to do this.






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.

























                        3














                        Most ROMs didn't break addressing into columns and rows, they just took a straight address off the address bus. So, there would be no reason for them to do this.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.























                          3












                          3








                          3







                          Most ROMs didn't break addressing into columns and rows, they just took a straight address off the address bus. So, there would be no reason for them to do this.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.










                          Most ROMs didn't break addressing into columns and rows, they just took a straight address off the address bus. So, there would be no reason for them to do this.







                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered 11 hours ago









                          user484603user484603

                          311




                          311




                          New contributor




                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.





                          New contributor





                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          user484603 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Retrocomputing Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f9281%2fdoes-fast-page-mode-apply-to-rom%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              is 'sed' thread safeWhat should someone know about using Python scripts in the shell?Nexenta bash script uses...

                              How do i solve the “ No module named 'mlxtend' ” issue on Jupyter?

                              Pilgersdorf Inhaltsverzeichnis Geografie | Geschichte | Bevölkerungsentwicklung | Politik | Kultur...