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Why would the Pakistan airspace closure cancel flights not headed to Pakistan itself?


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16












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    12 hours ago
















16












$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    12 hours ago














16












16








16





$begingroup$


The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




The India-Pakistan feud has heated up again, with Pakistan closing its airspace as a result.



I know many international routes fly over Pakistan, and that the closure would cause issues, but this report surprised me:




Thousands of people were also stranded by affected airlines that not only land in Pakistan, but fly over its airspace -- one of the major routes from Southeast Asia into Europe.



Thai Airways announced that all its European routes "departing near midnight of 27 FEB through early 28 FEB" were canceled "due to sudden closure of Pakistani airspace as a result of tension between India and Pakistan."




Why would the airspace closure force flights over it to cancel entirely? I would think you would just reroute them around it.







airline-operations airspace flight-path pakistan






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago







Machavity

















asked 15 hours ago









MachavityMachavity

2,2622632




2,2622632








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    12 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
    $endgroup$
    – Stian Yttervik
    12 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
Travelling through the middle east is not easy, not even above the skies. There are several closed airspaces and a few you want to avoid due to terrorism and an increasing capacity to hit high altitude targets.
$endgroup$
– Stian Yttervik
12 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















22












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    13 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    1 hour ago



















12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago



















11












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago



















3












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago











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4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes








4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









22












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    13 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    1 hour ago
















22












$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    13 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    1 hour ago














22












22








22





$begingroup$

To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



To give an example of how flights can be affected by this in ways to make them impossible, Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise (unless things have changed recently).
Any aircraft that due to the closure of Pakistani airspace would need to cross Iranian airspace and be unable to do so because of that closure now needs to be cancelled or rescheduled.



Also, if the diversion around Pakistani airspace would stretch the endurance of an aircraft beyond what fuel it can carry, it now no longer can fly the route.



Or the diversion would cause such a delay in the schedule that it causes too much problems with the overall scheduling of the airline. Such things tend to have a ripple effect. One flight gets delayed by several hours, dozens of others get delayed as a direct result, hundreds more can suffer delays in the end.



Also, some airports only operate during daylight hours. A diversion around Pakistan might mean the flight can't make it to one such airports before sunset and thus can't land at its intended destination. Now the airline has 2 options, divert to another airport, arrange for bus or train transport for all the passengers, and in the morning yet another hop to the intended destination to pick up the new passengers, or cancel the flight.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 15 hours ago









jwentingjwenting

11.6k12845




11.6k12845












  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    13 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hampton
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    * Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
    $endgroup$
    – user189035
    13 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
    $endgroup$
    – zymhan
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
    $endgroup$
    – John Ray
    5 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hampton
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
Or the airport doesn't operate late nights, such as SYD.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hampton
14 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
* Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
$endgroup$
– user189035
13 hours ago






$begingroup$
* Iranian airspace is closed from sunset to sunrise * I might be wrong but I see many landing scheduled at night there
$endgroup$
– user189035
13 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
$endgroup$
– zymhan
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
I would love to know more about Iranian airspace, maybe I'll post a different question. Flight paths over Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan are typically restricted to one of a few routes.
$endgroup$
– zymhan
13 hours ago












$begingroup$
I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
$endgroup$
– John Ray
5 hours ago






$begingroup$
I'd add that even if they can fly around Pakistan airlines are particularly cautious after MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. It's easier to just cancel the flight then guess if your leaving enough of a buffer zone. Especially when tensions are escalating between 2 countries.
$endgroup$
– John Ray
5 hours ago






1




1




$begingroup$
@JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
$endgroup$
– Sean
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@JohnRay: MH17 didn't involve any buffer zones - it was shot down while flying directly over an active warzone.
$endgroup$
– Sean
1 hour ago











12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago
















12












$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago














12












12








12





$begingroup$

There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.








share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



There are multiple reasons for cancelling instead of rerouting:




  • Take-off & landing slot assignments


    • You may have a pair of slots available and your regularly scheduled flight uses them. Rerouting the flight will take longer and you may no longer make your destination landing slot



  • Departure & arrival gate assignments


    • Likewise, you may no longer have a gate assignment available at the destination airport because the reroute takes too long.



  • Aircraft range.


    • If your flight is near the maximum range by overflying Pakistan, rerouting around it could push the plane past its maximum allowable range.









share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 15 hours ago









FreeManFreeMan

7,018955121




7,018955121












  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago
















$begingroup$
If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
$endgroup$
– Sean
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
If range is the problem, why not just make a technical stop somewhere like India or Iran?
$endgroup$
– Sean
2 hours ago











11












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago
















11












$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago














11












11








11





$begingroup$

Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Not mentioned in the other answers is simply logistics coordination. If you can't fly over Pakistan, that suggests that maybe you have to fly somewhere else. Perhaps flying around means an overflight of China or Kyrgyzstan. Do they charge overflight fees? Do they require prior permits? Even if the money involved isn't huge, starting up a new route may mean the first time your airline had to work with that country. I'd expect that could take a few days.



Even if you already have a relationship with the country from other routes, adding permits and having the accountants approve the route choice would still be required.



https://www.jetex.com/overflight-fees-in-asia-pacific/







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 12 hours ago









BowlOfRedBowlOfRed

3,59911026




3,59911026








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Seifert
    12 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
Interestingly, right now Thai Airways is largely flying over China, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Belarus, while EVA Air is using a route over India, the Arabian Sea, Iran, and Turkey. This speaks to the fact that logistical factors will differ between airlines, and different decisions will be made.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
12 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
It also appears that Thai Airways avoided Iran even before the Pakistan closure. This may be because Iranian overflight fees are relatively expensive.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
12 hours ago











3












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago
















3












$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago














3












3








3





$begingroup$

There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$



There was an extensive report on the grounding of Thai Airways flights in The Guardian today. To quote:




Thai Airways said later on Thursday it would resume flights after gaining permission from China to use its airspace for nearly a dozen flights to Europe set to leave on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning.




Quite simply, Thai lacked the necessary permissions.



The Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation established a general right for overflight by foreign aircraft, but many states nonetheless require airlines to acquire permission in advance – including China.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 5 hours ago









ymb1

66.2k7211351




66.2k7211351






New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 6 hours ago









Stephen KennedyStephen Kennedy

1313




1313




New contributor




Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Stephen Kennedy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
    $endgroup$
    – Sean
    2 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
$endgroup$
– Sean
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why not fly over India and the Arabian Sea instead?
$endgroup$
– Sean
2 hours ago


















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