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Quenching swords in dragon blood; why?


Why in the movies and games one dragon exists next to the nestDragon vs Antiaircraft ArtilleryDragon evolving from humanoid: Ice dragonEuropean Dragon VS Asian Dragon, who wins?How do you beat a middle-sized dragon?Surviving high fall from a dragonDragon taxonomyWhy would a fire dragon still be afraid of torches?Nanocellulose swords/ melee weaponsDragon flight muscles













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Imagine a typical fantasy world. Elves, goblins, dragons, magic. If you were to equate it to a D&D campaign, you would be close enough for proverbial government work. That said, thanks to time and magic, their knowledge of science is more advanced than usual. The people understand germ theory, and atoms (though not sub atomics).



One exception is that, in this world, it is popular to quench newly forged swords in dragon's blood instead of oil (or gods forbid, water). This is not just mysticism or cruelty, doing so produces demonstrably superior weapons. And it is not a magical benefit, dragon's blood swords are still better without any detectable powers or while in an anti-magic zone.



Why would that be? What physical properties could dragon's blood possess, that would somehow make it better for heat treating blades? And while still being viable blood for a living creature?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
    $endgroup$
    – Bewilderer
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago
















13












$begingroup$


Imagine a typical fantasy world. Elves, goblins, dragons, magic. If you were to equate it to a D&D campaign, you would be close enough for proverbial government work. That said, thanks to time and magic, their knowledge of science is more advanced than usual. The people understand germ theory, and atoms (though not sub atomics).



One exception is that, in this world, it is popular to quench newly forged swords in dragon's blood instead of oil (or gods forbid, water). This is not just mysticism or cruelty, doing so produces demonstrably superior weapons. And it is not a magical benefit, dragon's blood swords are still better without any detectable powers or while in an anti-magic zone.



Why would that be? What physical properties could dragon's blood possess, that would somehow make it better for heat treating blades? And while still being viable blood for a living creature?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
    $endgroup$
    – Bewilderer
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago














13












13








13


1



$begingroup$


Imagine a typical fantasy world. Elves, goblins, dragons, magic. If you were to equate it to a D&D campaign, you would be close enough for proverbial government work. That said, thanks to time and magic, their knowledge of science is more advanced than usual. The people understand germ theory, and atoms (though not sub atomics).



One exception is that, in this world, it is popular to quench newly forged swords in dragon's blood instead of oil (or gods forbid, water). This is not just mysticism or cruelty, doing so produces demonstrably superior weapons. And it is not a magical benefit, dragon's blood swords are still better without any detectable powers or while in an anti-magic zone.



Why would that be? What physical properties could dragon's blood possess, that would somehow make it better for heat treating blades? And while still being viable blood for a living creature?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




Imagine a typical fantasy world. Elves, goblins, dragons, magic. If you were to equate it to a D&D campaign, you would be close enough for proverbial government work. That said, thanks to time and magic, their knowledge of science is more advanced than usual. The people understand germ theory, and atoms (though not sub atomics).



One exception is that, in this world, it is popular to quench newly forged swords in dragon's blood instead of oil (or gods forbid, water). This is not just mysticism or cruelty, doing so produces demonstrably superior weapons. And it is not a magical benefit, dragon's blood swords are still better without any detectable powers or while in an anti-magic zone.



Why would that be? What physical properties could dragon's blood possess, that would somehow make it better for heat treating blades? And while still being viable blood for a living creature?







science-based weapons dragons






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









Xavon_WrentaileXavon_Wrentaile

3,972927




3,972927












  • $begingroup$
    What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
    $endgroup$
    – Bewilderer
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
    $endgroup$
    – Bewilderer
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
    $endgroup$
    – Xavon_Wrentaile
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago
















$begingroup$
What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
$endgroup$
– Bewilderer
yesterday




$begingroup$
What qualifications are used to consider a sword "better" if it is treated with blood?
$endgroup$
– Bewilderer
yesterday












$begingroup$
Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
yesterday




$begingroup$
Are we free to alter the chemical composition of dragons' blood to whatever we need it to be? For instance, making it more caustic? Acidic? Iron content? Boiling point?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
yesterday












$begingroup$
@Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
yesterday




$begingroup$
@Bewilderer Any improvement without a noticeable detriment. Can be sharpened to a narrower edge and hold it better without becoming brittle. Can flex better with losing strength. Whatever would be viable improvement, and is scientifically possible.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
yesterday












$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
yesterday




$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Certainly, so long as it still works as blood.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
yesterday












$begingroup$
another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
$endgroup$
– Elias Rowan Albatross
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
another idea is annealing. quenching is cooling the blade quickly whereas annealing is letting it cool slowly, maybe dragons blood absorbs very little heat, more than air but far less than anything else. but then we can say that the blood is dense enough that it works out imperfections by applying even pressure all around while the sword is still hot. normally we manually work out the imperfections and try to harden it as fast as possible without creating any more, but what if you just did your best and let the dense blood work out the rest. youd have a perfect blade that holds a perfect edge.
$endgroup$
– Elias Rowan Albatross
14 hours ago










12 Answers
12






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You don't want harder steel it breaks, you don't want softer steel, it bends, you want more control of the temprature of the steel at every stage so you can get the exact properties you want. Better is more control of the process.



Dragon blood is just a non-flammable liquid with thermal conductivity similar to oils or water but unlike water and oils it a vapor point higher than steels melting point, so the oil can be heated to much higher temperatures This means it can control the temprature the steel is cooled to exactly.



This also allows it to be used in a liquid oven or normalizing medium, which means the steel can be heated perfectly evenly and kept there as long as necessary. this is how the best steels are produced and how to get the most out of your steel allows, precision control of temprature at every stage. It can even be used for annealing and tempering much how modern smiths use ovens.



Most forges and quenches can not be targeted to the exact temprature, quenching fluid in particular boils off before it can be heated to the best temperatures. it is really easy to overheat or undereat the steel. Today we can use molten salts for some of these, But that is a recent invention. Molten salt is also extremely dangerous.



A basic introduction to heat treatment of steel.



Making good steel is about precision, you are trying to hit a bullseye of qualities. for those unfamiliar with the term ductility, low ductility means brittle, high ductility means easy to bend, you don't want either.
enter image description here



It even makes sense that dragons would have such blood since the need blood that will not boil ho matter how hot they are.






share|improve this answer











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  • 2




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    awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    14 hours ago






  • 4




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    magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    14 hours ago



















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I am a blacksmith. I make blades, like this one.



enter image description here



Ok first things first, there is a lot of disinformation in here...first I will address that.




  1. Quenching is not the final step in making a blade. It is the most dramatic moment of the forging process and is generally shown in entertainment as the last step...its not.


  2. Quenching is not even the final step in the heat treating process.


  3. The final step in heat treating is tempering



It generally doesn't matter what type of fluid you quench your blade in. The general thing to know is that the faster the steel cools down from critical (the point where it is so hot it is no longer magnetic) the harder and more brittle it becomes.



Brief definition break!




  • Hardness: Hardness is a measure of how much force it takes to deform the steel

  • Toughness: Toughness is a measure of how much force a blade can take and still return to is previous shape.


Ok so anyway. You want the edge of the blade to be hard and you want the spine of the blade to be flexible. To do this you first harden the blade by quenching it as mentioned.



Once that is done you reheat the blade but only along the spine back to a cherry red, say 800 degrees or so. While you do this you keep the cutting edge cool either by keeping it in liquid or wet clay or something, this keeps the edge hard.



Ok. On to the question at hand...how does dragon blood make blades better?



Sadly, with science...it doesn't. When you quench the blade in any substance, the outer layer will indeed bond with the quenching fluid (we use a mix of motor oil and antifreeze at my shop). The problem is, it is a very thin layer, and depending on the type of steel may actually flake off. Either way you would grind and polish after hardening. Then you would temper the spine. After tempering you do your final grind/polish and sharpening.



Metallurgy really doesn't allow for a scientific benefit to using dragon blood...which is great for your dragons.



That being said if you are working in a fantasy realm...which I would assume you are since...you know...dragons, you can use the ol' its magic and create something that works for story telling. Just because it doesn't work in real life doesn't mean it can't be awesome in a story.






share|improve this answer









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  • $begingroup$
    The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
    $endgroup$
    – James
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    13 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
    $endgroup$
    – James
    13 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
    $endgroup$
    – Chronocidal
    13 hours ago



















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For those of us who are not up-to-date on their material science, quenching has the end effect of making metal harder. It achieves this through the cooling rate of the metal. It can be that dragon's blood happens to conduct heat really well, making a harder blade.



This may also explain why those darn dragons don't burn easily: their blood helps dissipate the heat so well!



Additionally, cooling some metal quickly enough can result in it being amorphous. In generalities, amorphous metals (or glass metals) resist plastic deformation and are tougher than crystalline (normal) metals.



Harder blades tend to keep edges better, and the increased toughness means it'll last longer under repeated loads (like when used as a weapon). Harder blades are not always better: it depends on the style of sword and martial system you are using. Tougher blades, though, are generally considered better- they snap back better to their original shape and don't become bent as easily.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    yesterday






  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
    $endgroup$
    – Rekesoft
    20 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    16 hours ago






  • 4




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    You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
    $endgroup$
    – James
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    13 hours ago





















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Dragon blood is rich in phosphorus.




Phosphorus in steel can have beneficial as well as harmful effects.
Phosphorus is one of the most potent solid-solution strengtheners of
ferrite. The addition of only 0.17% phosphorus increases both the
yield and tensile strength of low-carbon sheet steel by about 62 MPa
(9 ksi) while also improving the bake hardening response and deep
drawability... Phosphorus is also used as an additive in steels to
improve machining characteristics and atmospheric corrosion
resistance.



Detrimental effects of phosphorus in steel include various forms of
embrittlement which reduce the toughness and ductility. The most
familiar example in this category is the classic phenomenon of temper
embrittlement...
https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=kts&NM=211




You do not want phosphorus mixed with your steel. It will make it brittle. You want a thin layer on the outside. That hardens the outer layer, where you want it to hold and edge. Also that outer layer offers corrosion resistance, which you do not need on the sword interior.



Your question does not state that the swords are steel. Maybe they are bronze. Phosphor bronze.




Phosphor bronze is an alloy of copper with 0.5–11% of tin and
0.01–0.35% phosphorus. The tin increases the corrosion resistance and strength of the alloy. The phosphorus increases the wear resistance
and stiffness of the alloy.




If you had Bronze Age tech, phosphor bronze would be excellent sword making stuff. Wikipedia shows a phosphor bronze ship propeller - for tool making applications this would be great, and a dip in high phosphorus dragon blood would be a way to get a layer of phosphor bronze on the outside of your bronze weapon.





I got this idea because I thought I had read that the druids did exactly this with swords and human blood - quenched them in blood to harden the outside, which was accomplished by the high phosphorus content of blood. Animals run on ATP which is a high energy phosphorus compound and so all blood has a lot of phosphorus. You could make dragon blood exceptionally high - perhaps they need a lot of circulating ATP to produce fire.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    12 hours ago



















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Dragons' blood is an absurdly good insulator. Now, normally this would not be quite what you want for quenching, but Dragons' blood is also magical.



Quenching a blade in Dragons' blood is not like a normal quenching - it's more like aging a whiskey. You heat the blade to white-hot, plunge it into the blood, seal it up, and leave it for a month or so.



The blade then cools incredibly slowly. Aided by the intrinsic magic of the blood purifying the lattice and eliminating dislocations, the end result is a nigh-indestructible monocrystalline blade which requires no further tempering.



The blade must then be sharpened by magic, resulting in this monomolecular blade having an edge only a handful of atoms thick - but despite the magic involved in the forging process, no actual magical properties are imposed on the sword itself.



(This also explains why Dragons sleep on hoards of gold and treasures made from other metals - the magic in their blood interacts with the metal, giving them the same basking feeling that a lizard gets in the hot sun)






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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
    $endgroup$
    – Garrett Motzner
    5 hours ago



















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Better doesn't necessarily mean harder.



Perhaps the dragon's blood is high in elements which are inherently poisonous to humans. A thin coating of mercury or arsenic on a blade can dramatically increase the killing effectiveness of the steel. Add to that real threat, the psychological burden of knowing that your enemy's blade is poisoned, and battles can be won before the blade is even drawn.



Now go deeper than just a thin coating...



Perhaps quenching a scalding hot blade in poisonous metals saturates the resulting steel with a lethality which can't just be wiped away. It is in the metal and will be the deciding factor of every battle in which the blade is used.



Alternatively, the poison could be biochemical. Perhaps the dragon's blood contains a voracious infection which thrives in the scalding bloodstreams of dragons. When stored in the structure of cold steel, the microscopic life lays dormant until revived by hot human blood. Once activated, it quickly consumes the victim since human immune defenses are no match for a virus born in dragons. This alternative has the advantage that the blade could be handled, cleaned and cared for as long as it never came in touch with blood. It would be safer for it's wielder to carry than the elementally poisoned blade described above.






share|improve this answer











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  • $begingroup$
    You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    14 hours ago



















2












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Quenching is the process in which steel is cooled from extremely high temperatures to not so high ones. the faster the cooling the harder the steel. According to a few pages I just read nothing is faster at dispersing thermal energy from other materials than water.



So in order to make dragons blood superior for quenching to water, we need to find its one flaw. that is water cools steel so quickly that it doesn't cool evenly which is absolutely necessary to create perfect steel.



So all you need to do to make your dragon blood so amazing is have the perfect ratio of water to any other materials in the blood to make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water. You need no special chemical properties or materials, just the right ratio of water to not water. I hope this makes sense and is helpful. Thank you :)






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  • $begingroup$
    Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    16 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
    $endgroup$
    – Nyakouai
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
    $endgroup$
    – Elias Rowan Albatross
    14 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

It's a little-known fact that dragon's blood has an exceptionally high graphite content, a byproduct of their evolution from the igneous realms of the molten hearts of mountains. Graphite is a blacksmith's friend for three reasons. First, being elemental carbon, it can be used in the production of weapon-grade steel. One fist of dragon's blood for every twelve fists of molten iron has been found to be the ideal ratio for the hardest "dragon steel". Second, graphite is an excellent refractory material able to provide stable heat insulation across a wide range of temperatures. When quenching hot steel in dragon's blood, the liquid effectively becomes a kiln that cools weapon steel evenly and, by coincidence or godly design, at the ideal rate that ensures maximum hardness. Finally, graphite is a superb lubricator, and the use of dragon's blood while grinding a dragon steel blade is known to yield the sharpest possible edge.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    16 hours ago



















1












$begingroup$

Well cooling metal too slowly results in it being too soft but cooling it too fast results in it being hard but brittle. Dragons blood you see, it contains metals that get heated when it breaths fire and then they are cooled in a controlled way by the blood. The result is that these metals are cooled not too fast, not too slow but just right. so that it can use them in its scales. dragon blood has evolved to do this. when you quench metal in this blood you will benefit from its properties.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    Dragons are usually big and armored, begging the question of where the square cube law was when they were created. But there are solutions. As material sciences advance we notice that molecularly perfect substances often exibit extreme proporties, so we can only assume that Dragons have evolved to create many of these materials to strengthen themselves and make them able to support their own weight.



    Damascan steel managed to get very strong and still elastic through nanowires and carbon Nanotubes that were enclosed in the metal. Such materials could be present in dragon's blood especially if parts of the dragon were ground into the blood.



    What happens during the quenching is that these materials coat the blade, providing a superior resiliance to shattering, dentation and needing less effort to remain sharp. If you then use folded steel and quench between foldings you create many layers of this coating inside the blade, making them have superior properties in strength, resilience, maintenancr and resistance to damage/shattering.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
      $endgroup$
      – Monty Harder
      12 hours ago



















    1












    $begingroup$

    Dragon's blood is an ideal medium for austempering



    While most blades, to this day, are made using water or oil as the quench medium in the traditional quenching and tempering process that James mentions, producing a tempered martensite microstructure, this is actually not the ideal microstructure for a given hardness. The work of Bain and his colleagues in the 1930s on isothermal transformations in steel led to the discovery of a superior microstructure, namely upper bainite, with improved toughness at a given hardness for typical blade hardnesses (above 40 on the Rockwell C hardness scale). However, it isn't achievable in ordinary carbon steel using typical, continuous-cooling quench media. Modern production dunks the part in a molten salt (nitrite/nitrate) bath that cools the part to an isothermal transformation temperature, then holds it there to effect the transformation before pulling it out and letting it air-cool post-austemper, or uses special alloys that can form bainite during a continuous cooling process. This is known as austempering, and is commonly used for high-strength steel parts such as rifle bolts (all the way back to WWII) and seat belt parts in cars.



    In your case, though, you can do better. The blood of your dragons is a high-boiling liquid (very low vapor pressure) with excellent thermal stability, and a high specific heat capacity, making it ideal for austempering a blade as it will not boil off, decompose, react with the blade, or change in temperature much when the part is added. In this process, the quench tank would be almost like a cauldron, kept hot (but not too hot!) with a stoked fire, and the parts would be held in the quench medium for a significant length of time, effecting an isothermal austemper and producing tougher, stronger blades for a given hardness at a minor tradeoff in absolute hardness achievable. Once done, the part would be removed from the bath, washed, and for a blade taken straight to the grinding wheel for sharpening, as austempered parts need no further heat treatment.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$

      Dragons are fierce creatures the size of small commercial jets. The forces involved when they fight are intense. Consequently, they need many unique adaptations just to avoid bleeding to death or becoming permanently disabled in the course of their frequent scuffles.



      One of those adaptations is an advanced clotting factor in their blood. When exposed to intense heat it forms a strong impermeable coating film w/ over 2-3x the toughness & 3-6x the tensile strength by weight of spider silk, & at a density comparable to steel. Quenching in Dragon's Blood thus deposits a microscopic coating that happens to bond to steel really well (due to little understood adaptations for rapid bone regeneration that apparently rely on high concentrations of several organometallic compounds dissolved in their blood) and which far exceeds the performance of any synthetic materials we can hope to make.





      share









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        12 Answers
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        12 Answers
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        active

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        28












        $begingroup$

        You don't want harder steel it breaks, you don't want softer steel, it bends, you want more control of the temprature of the steel at every stage so you can get the exact properties you want. Better is more control of the process.



        Dragon blood is just a non-flammable liquid with thermal conductivity similar to oils or water but unlike water and oils it a vapor point higher than steels melting point, so the oil can be heated to much higher temperatures This means it can control the temprature the steel is cooled to exactly.



        This also allows it to be used in a liquid oven or normalizing medium, which means the steel can be heated perfectly evenly and kept there as long as necessary. this is how the best steels are produced and how to get the most out of your steel allows, precision control of temprature at every stage. It can even be used for annealing and tempering much how modern smiths use ovens.



        Most forges and quenches can not be targeted to the exact temprature, quenching fluid in particular boils off before it can be heated to the best temperatures. it is really easy to overheat or undereat the steel. Today we can use molten salts for some of these, But that is a recent invention. Molten salt is also extremely dangerous.



        A basic introduction to heat treatment of steel.



        Making good steel is about precision, you are trying to hit a bullseye of qualities. for those unfamiliar with the term ductility, low ductility means brittle, high ductility means easy to bend, you don't want either.
        enter image description here



        It even makes sense that dragons would have such blood since the need blood that will not boil ho matter how hot they are.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 2




          $begingroup$
          awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago
















        28












        $begingroup$

        You don't want harder steel it breaks, you don't want softer steel, it bends, you want more control of the temprature of the steel at every stage so you can get the exact properties you want. Better is more control of the process.



        Dragon blood is just a non-flammable liquid with thermal conductivity similar to oils or water but unlike water and oils it a vapor point higher than steels melting point, so the oil can be heated to much higher temperatures This means it can control the temprature the steel is cooled to exactly.



        This also allows it to be used in a liquid oven or normalizing medium, which means the steel can be heated perfectly evenly and kept there as long as necessary. this is how the best steels are produced and how to get the most out of your steel allows, precision control of temprature at every stage. It can even be used for annealing and tempering much how modern smiths use ovens.



        Most forges and quenches can not be targeted to the exact temprature, quenching fluid in particular boils off before it can be heated to the best temperatures. it is really easy to overheat or undereat the steel. Today we can use molten salts for some of these, But that is a recent invention. Molten salt is also extremely dangerous.



        A basic introduction to heat treatment of steel.



        Making good steel is about precision, you are trying to hit a bullseye of qualities. for those unfamiliar with the term ductility, low ductility means brittle, high ductility means easy to bend, you don't want either.
        enter image description here



        It even makes sense that dragons would have such blood since the need blood that will not boil ho matter how hot they are.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 2




          $begingroup$
          awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago














        28












        28








        28





        $begingroup$

        You don't want harder steel it breaks, you don't want softer steel, it bends, you want more control of the temprature of the steel at every stage so you can get the exact properties you want. Better is more control of the process.



        Dragon blood is just a non-flammable liquid with thermal conductivity similar to oils or water but unlike water and oils it a vapor point higher than steels melting point, so the oil can be heated to much higher temperatures This means it can control the temprature the steel is cooled to exactly.



        This also allows it to be used in a liquid oven or normalizing medium, which means the steel can be heated perfectly evenly and kept there as long as necessary. this is how the best steels are produced and how to get the most out of your steel allows, precision control of temprature at every stage. It can even be used for annealing and tempering much how modern smiths use ovens.



        Most forges and quenches can not be targeted to the exact temprature, quenching fluid in particular boils off before it can be heated to the best temperatures. it is really easy to overheat or undereat the steel. Today we can use molten salts for some of these, But that is a recent invention. Molten salt is also extremely dangerous.



        A basic introduction to heat treatment of steel.



        Making good steel is about precision, you are trying to hit a bullseye of qualities. for those unfamiliar with the term ductility, low ductility means brittle, high ductility means easy to bend, you don't want either.
        enter image description here



        It even makes sense that dragons would have such blood since the need blood that will not boil ho matter how hot they are.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        You don't want harder steel it breaks, you don't want softer steel, it bends, you want more control of the temprature of the steel at every stage so you can get the exact properties you want. Better is more control of the process.



        Dragon blood is just a non-flammable liquid with thermal conductivity similar to oils or water but unlike water and oils it a vapor point higher than steels melting point, so the oil can be heated to much higher temperatures This means it can control the temprature the steel is cooled to exactly.



        This also allows it to be used in a liquid oven or normalizing medium, which means the steel can be heated perfectly evenly and kept there as long as necessary. this is how the best steels are produced and how to get the most out of your steel allows, precision control of temprature at every stage. It can even be used for annealing and tempering much how modern smiths use ovens.



        Most forges and quenches can not be targeted to the exact temprature, quenching fluid in particular boils off before it can be heated to the best temperatures. it is really easy to overheat or undereat the steel. Today we can use molten salts for some of these, But that is a recent invention. Molten salt is also extremely dangerous.



        A basic introduction to heat treatment of steel.



        Making good steel is about precision, you are trying to hit a bullseye of qualities. for those unfamiliar with the term ductility, low ductility means brittle, high ductility means easy to bend, you don't want either.
        enter image description here



        It even makes sense that dragons would have such blood since the need blood that will not boil ho matter how hot they are.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 12 hours ago

























        answered 16 hours ago









        JohnJohn

        34.3k1046121




        34.3k1046121








        • 2




          $begingroup$
          awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago














        • 2




          $begingroup$
          awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago








        2




        2




        $begingroup$
        awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        awesome answer. The grain type shown in the recovery part of that graphic reminded me of a chart i saw related to magnetism and this gives me an idea, what if the blood is magnetic for whatever reason? while the steel is easily manipulable the magnetism would align the grain to a more perfect form right?
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        imagine a slow, magnetized cooling. making a blade that is perfectly aligned and well hardened, and then gilded with arsenic making it poisonous to any who are stabbed by it. i feel like something can be taken from all these answers
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        @EliasRowanAlbatross Poison is more or less pointless on a sword, especially arsenic, you need to take in a lot of arsenic to bother someone. Being magnetically aligned is probably a net bad,getting stuck to you opponent sword or armor might get you killed.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago




        4




        4




        $begingroup$
        magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        magnetised steel doesnt remain magnetic forever. you can demagnetise it. it will just have a well aligned grain that absorbs shock better than other swords and would thus not break as easily.
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        @EliasRowanAlbatross I Thought you meant permanently magnetized, I see what you mean, yeah that could be beneficial.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago











        11












        $begingroup$

        I am a blacksmith. I make blades, like this one.



        enter image description here



        Ok first things first, there is a lot of disinformation in here...first I will address that.




        1. Quenching is not the final step in making a blade. It is the most dramatic moment of the forging process and is generally shown in entertainment as the last step...its not.


        2. Quenching is not even the final step in the heat treating process.


        3. The final step in heat treating is tempering



        It generally doesn't matter what type of fluid you quench your blade in. The general thing to know is that the faster the steel cools down from critical (the point where it is so hot it is no longer magnetic) the harder and more brittle it becomes.



        Brief definition break!




        • Hardness: Hardness is a measure of how much force it takes to deform the steel

        • Toughness: Toughness is a measure of how much force a blade can take and still return to is previous shape.


        Ok so anyway. You want the edge of the blade to be hard and you want the spine of the blade to be flexible. To do this you first harden the blade by quenching it as mentioned.



        Once that is done you reheat the blade but only along the spine back to a cherry red, say 800 degrees or so. While you do this you keep the cutting edge cool either by keeping it in liquid or wet clay or something, this keeps the edge hard.



        Ok. On to the question at hand...how does dragon blood make blades better?



        Sadly, with science...it doesn't. When you quench the blade in any substance, the outer layer will indeed bond with the quenching fluid (we use a mix of motor oil and antifreeze at my shop). The problem is, it is a very thin layer, and depending on the type of steel may actually flake off. Either way you would grind and polish after hardening. Then you would temper the spine. After tempering you do your final grind/polish and sharpening.



        Metallurgy really doesn't allow for a scientific benefit to using dragon blood...which is great for your dragons.



        That being said if you are working in a fantasy realm...which I would assume you are since...you know...dragons, you can use the ol' its magic and create something that works for story telling. Just because it doesn't work in real life doesn't mean it can't be awesome in a story.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          13 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          13 hours ago








        • 2




          $begingroup$
          @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
          $endgroup$
          – Chronocidal
          13 hours ago
















        11












        $begingroup$

        I am a blacksmith. I make blades, like this one.



        enter image description here



        Ok first things first, there is a lot of disinformation in here...first I will address that.




        1. Quenching is not the final step in making a blade. It is the most dramatic moment of the forging process and is generally shown in entertainment as the last step...its not.


        2. Quenching is not even the final step in the heat treating process.


        3. The final step in heat treating is tempering



        It generally doesn't matter what type of fluid you quench your blade in. The general thing to know is that the faster the steel cools down from critical (the point where it is so hot it is no longer magnetic) the harder and more brittle it becomes.



        Brief definition break!




        • Hardness: Hardness is a measure of how much force it takes to deform the steel

        • Toughness: Toughness is a measure of how much force a blade can take and still return to is previous shape.


        Ok so anyway. You want the edge of the blade to be hard and you want the spine of the blade to be flexible. To do this you first harden the blade by quenching it as mentioned.



        Once that is done you reheat the blade but only along the spine back to a cherry red, say 800 degrees or so. While you do this you keep the cutting edge cool either by keeping it in liquid or wet clay or something, this keeps the edge hard.



        Ok. On to the question at hand...how does dragon blood make blades better?



        Sadly, with science...it doesn't. When you quench the blade in any substance, the outer layer will indeed bond with the quenching fluid (we use a mix of motor oil and antifreeze at my shop). The problem is, it is a very thin layer, and depending on the type of steel may actually flake off. Either way you would grind and polish after hardening. Then you would temper the spine. After tempering you do your final grind/polish and sharpening.



        Metallurgy really doesn't allow for a scientific benefit to using dragon blood...which is great for your dragons.



        That being said if you are working in a fantasy realm...which I would assume you are since...you know...dragons, you can use the ol' its magic and create something that works for story telling. Just because it doesn't work in real life doesn't mean it can't be awesome in a story.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          13 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          13 hours ago








        • 2




          $begingroup$
          @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
          $endgroup$
          – Chronocidal
          13 hours ago














        11












        11








        11





        $begingroup$

        I am a blacksmith. I make blades, like this one.



        enter image description here



        Ok first things first, there is a lot of disinformation in here...first I will address that.




        1. Quenching is not the final step in making a blade. It is the most dramatic moment of the forging process and is generally shown in entertainment as the last step...its not.


        2. Quenching is not even the final step in the heat treating process.


        3. The final step in heat treating is tempering



        It generally doesn't matter what type of fluid you quench your blade in. The general thing to know is that the faster the steel cools down from critical (the point where it is so hot it is no longer magnetic) the harder and more brittle it becomes.



        Brief definition break!




        • Hardness: Hardness is a measure of how much force it takes to deform the steel

        • Toughness: Toughness is a measure of how much force a blade can take and still return to is previous shape.


        Ok so anyway. You want the edge of the blade to be hard and you want the spine of the blade to be flexible. To do this you first harden the blade by quenching it as mentioned.



        Once that is done you reheat the blade but only along the spine back to a cherry red, say 800 degrees or so. While you do this you keep the cutting edge cool either by keeping it in liquid or wet clay or something, this keeps the edge hard.



        Ok. On to the question at hand...how does dragon blood make blades better?



        Sadly, with science...it doesn't. When you quench the blade in any substance, the outer layer will indeed bond with the quenching fluid (we use a mix of motor oil and antifreeze at my shop). The problem is, it is a very thin layer, and depending on the type of steel may actually flake off. Either way you would grind and polish after hardening. Then you would temper the spine. After tempering you do your final grind/polish and sharpening.



        Metallurgy really doesn't allow for a scientific benefit to using dragon blood...which is great for your dragons.



        That being said if you are working in a fantasy realm...which I would assume you are since...you know...dragons, you can use the ol' its magic and create something that works for story telling. Just because it doesn't work in real life doesn't mean it can't be awesome in a story.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        I am a blacksmith. I make blades, like this one.



        enter image description here



        Ok first things first, there is a lot of disinformation in here...first I will address that.




        1. Quenching is not the final step in making a blade. It is the most dramatic moment of the forging process and is generally shown in entertainment as the last step...its not.


        2. Quenching is not even the final step in the heat treating process.


        3. The final step in heat treating is tempering



        It generally doesn't matter what type of fluid you quench your blade in. The general thing to know is that the faster the steel cools down from critical (the point where it is so hot it is no longer magnetic) the harder and more brittle it becomes.



        Brief definition break!




        • Hardness: Hardness is a measure of how much force it takes to deform the steel

        • Toughness: Toughness is a measure of how much force a blade can take and still return to is previous shape.


        Ok so anyway. You want the edge of the blade to be hard and you want the spine of the blade to be flexible. To do this you first harden the blade by quenching it as mentioned.



        Once that is done you reheat the blade but only along the spine back to a cherry red, say 800 degrees or so. While you do this you keep the cutting edge cool either by keeping it in liquid or wet clay or something, this keeps the edge hard.



        Ok. On to the question at hand...how does dragon blood make blades better?



        Sadly, with science...it doesn't. When you quench the blade in any substance, the outer layer will indeed bond with the quenching fluid (we use a mix of motor oil and antifreeze at my shop). The problem is, it is a very thin layer, and depending on the type of steel may actually flake off. Either way you would grind and polish after hardening. Then you would temper the spine. After tempering you do your final grind/polish and sharpening.



        Metallurgy really doesn't allow for a scientific benefit to using dragon blood...which is great for your dragons.



        That being said if you are working in a fantasy realm...which I would assume you are since...you know...dragons, you can use the ol' its magic and create something that works for story telling. Just because it doesn't work in real life doesn't mean it can't be awesome in a story.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 14 hours ago









        JamesJames

        24.8k1095181




        24.8k1095181












        • $begingroup$
          The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          13 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          13 hours ago








        • 2




          $begingroup$
          @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
          $endgroup$
          – Chronocidal
          13 hours ago


















        • $begingroup$
          The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          13 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
          $endgroup$
          – James
          13 hours ago








        • 2




          $begingroup$
          @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
          $endgroup$
          – Chronocidal
          13 hours ago
















        $begingroup$
        The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        The OP does specify they want a non-magical effect.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
        $endgroup$
        – James
        14 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        @John and I explained that is unfortunately not possible, but wanted to suggest that the magic option in a world that already has dragons is still pretty awesome.
        $endgroup$
        – James
        14 hours ago














        $begingroup$
        You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        13 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        You might want to read my answer. It could be beneficial if it has the right properties. Basically molten salt, without all the problems molten salt has. Nice to meet a fellow smith.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        13 hours ago














        $begingroup$
        @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
        $endgroup$
        – James
        13 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        @John I did, but how does that account for the fact that for blades you want differential heat treating on the various parts of the blade?
        $endgroup$
        – James
        13 hours ago






        2




        2




        $begingroup$
        @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
        $endgroup$
        – Chronocidal
        13 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        @John The end result might be non-magical, but the property of the Dragon Blood could be - perhaps it reacts endothermically with the steel to form a magically heat-resistant coating - then you can scour the spine of the blade clean, and heat it to cherry-red while leaving the cutting edge cold for a superior temper?
        $endgroup$
        – Chronocidal
        13 hours ago











        9












        $begingroup$

        For those of us who are not up-to-date on their material science, quenching has the end effect of making metal harder. It achieves this through the cooling rate of the metal. It can be that dragon's blood happens to conduct heat really well, making a harder blade.



        This may also explain why those darn dragons don't burn easily: their blood helps dissipate the heat so well!



        Additionally, cooling some metal quickly enough can result in it being amorphous. In generalities, amorphous metals (or glass metals) resist plastic deformation and are tougher than crystalline (normal) metals.



        Harder blades tend to keep edges better, and the increased toughness means it'll last longer under repeated loads (like when used as a weapon). Harder blades are not always better: it depends on the style of sword and martial system you are using. Tougher blades, though, are generally considered better- they snap back better to their original shape and don't become bent as easily.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          yesterday






        • 6




          $begingroup$
          Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
          $endgroup$
          – Rekesoft
          20 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago


















        9












        $begingroup$

        For those of us who are not up-to-date on their material science, quenching has the end effect of making metal harder. It achieves this through the cooling rate of the metal. It can be that dragon's blood happens to conduct heat really well, making a harder blade.



        This may also explain why those darn dragons don't burn easily: their blood helps dissipate the heat so well!



        Additionally, cooling some metal quickly enough can result in it being amorphous. In generalities, amorphous metals (or glass metals) resist plastic deformation and are tougher than crystalline (normal) metals.



        Harder blades tend to keep edges better, and the increased toughness means it'll last longer under repeated loads (like when used as a weapon). Harder blades are not always better: it depends on the style of sword and martial system you are using. Tougher blades, though, are generally considered better- they snap back better to their original shape and don't become bent as easily.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          yesterday






        • 6




          $begingroup$
          Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
          $endgroup$
          – Rekesoft
          20 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago
















        9












        9








        9





        $begingroup$

        For those of us who are not up-to-date on their material science, quenching has the end effect of making metal harder. It achieves this through the cooling rate of the metal. It can be that dragon's blood happens to conduct heat really well, making a harder blade.



        This may also explain why those darn dragons don't burn easily: their blood helps dissipate the heat so well!



        Additionally, cooling some metal quickly enough can result in it being amorphous. In generalities, amorphous metals (or glass metals) resist plastic deformation and are tougher than crystalline (normal) metals.



        Harder blades tend to keep edges better, and the increased toughness means it'll last longer under repeated loads (like when used as a weapon). Harder blades are not always better: it depends on the style of sword and martial system you are using. Tougher blades, though, are generally considered better- they snap back better to their original shape and don't become bent as easily.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        For those of us who are not up-to-date on their material science, quenching has the end effect of making metal harder. It achieves this through the cooling rate of the metal. It can be that dragon's blood happens to conduct heat really well, making a harder blade.



        This may also explain why those darn dragons don't burn easily: their blood helps dissipate the heat so well!



        Additionally, cooling some metal quickly enough can result in it being amorphous. In generalities, amorphous metals (or glass metals) resist plastic deformation and are tougher than crystalline (normal) metals.



        Harder blades tend to keep edges better, and the increased toughness means it'll last longer under repeated loads (like when used as a weapon). Harder blades are not always better: it depends on the style of sword and martial system you are using. Tougher blades, though, are generally considered better- they snap back better to their original shape and don't become bent as easily.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered yesterday









        PipperChipPipperChip

        22.8k157104




        22.8k157104












        • $begingroup$
          You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          yesterday






        • 6




          $begingroup$
          Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
          $endgroup$
          – Rekesoft
          20 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago




















        • $begingroup$
          You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          yesterday






        • 6




          $begingroup$
          Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
          $endgroup$
          – Rekesoft
          20 hours ago






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
          $endgroup$
          – James
          14 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago


















        $begingroup$
        You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        yesterday




        $begingroup$
        You were going the same route i was, it simply matters in the heat dissipation not chemical reaction
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        yesterday




        6




        6




        $begingroup$
        Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
        $endgroup$
        – Rekesoft
        20 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        Quenching in water may make the sword brittle. Dragon blood would make it worse.
        $endgroup$
        – Rekesoft
        20 hours ago




        2




        2




        $begingroup$
        This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        This is a horrible idea, we can already cool steel much faster, we don't because it makes it brittle. Steel that is too hard AKA steel glass shatters if you drop it on the floor or any other sudden impact. You are making a sword guaranteed to get the wielder killed. Wish I could down vote this answer twice.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago




        4




        4




        $begingroup$
        You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
        $endgroup$
        – James
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        You are confusing hardness and toughness, they are not the same. Hardness maintains the edge, toughness is how well it flexes and maintains shape.
        $endgroup$
        – James
        14 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
        $endgroup$
        – Mołot
        13 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        Faster quenching means increased hardness, but decreased toughness. You got that part totally upside down.
        $endgroup$
        – Mołot
        13 hours ago













        9












        $begingroup$

        Dragon blood is rich in phosphorus.




        Phosphorus in steel can have beneficial as well as harmful effects.
        Phosphorus is one of the most potent solid-solution strengtheners of
        ferrite. The addition of only 0.17% phosphorus increases both the
        yield and tensile strength of low-carbon sheet steel by about 62 MPa
        (9 ksi) while also improving the bake hardening response and deep
        drawability... Phosphorus is also used as an additive in steels to
        improve machining characteristics and atmospheric corrosion
        resistance.



        Detrimental effects of phosphorus in steel include various forms of
        embrittlement which reduce the toughness and ductility. The most
        familiar example in this category is the classic phenomenon of temper
        embrittlement...
        https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=kts&NM=211




        You do not want phosphorus mixed with your steel. It will make it brittle. You want a thin layer on the outside. That hardens the outer layer, where you want it to hold and edge. Also that outer layer offers corrosion resistance, which you do not need on the sword interior.



        Your question does not state that the swords are steel. Maybe they are bronze. Phosphor bronze.




        Phosphor bronze is an alloy of copper with 0.5–11% of tin and
        0.01–0.35% phosphorus. The tin increases the corrosion resistance and strength of the alloy. The phosphorus increases the wear resistance
        and stiffness of the alloy.




        If you had Bronze Age tech, phosphor bronze would be excellent sword making stuff. Wikipedia shows a phosphor bronze ship propeller - for tool making applications this would be great, and a dip in high phosphorus dragon blood would be a way to get a layer of phosphor bronze on the outside of your bronze weapon.





        I got this idea because I thought I had read that the druids did exactly this with swords and human blood - quenched them in blood to harden the outside, which was accomplished by the high phosphorus content of blood. Animals run on ATP which is a high energy phosphorus compound and so all blood has a lot of phosphorus. You could make dragon blood exceptionally high - perhaps they need a lot of circulating ATP to produce fire.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          12 hours ago
















        9












        $begingroup$

        Dragon blood is rich in phosphorus.




        Phosphorus in steel can have beneficial as well as harmful effects.
        Phosphorus is one of the most potent solid-solution strengtheners of
        ferrite. The addition of only 0.17% phosphorus increases both the
        yield and tensile strength of low-carbon sheet steel by about 62 MPa
        (9 ksi) while also improving the bake hardening response and deep
        drawability... Phosphorus is also used as an additive in steels to
        improve machining characteristics and atmospheric corrosion
        resistance.



        Detrimental effects of phosphorus in steel include various forms of
        embrittlement which reduce the toughness and ductility. The most
        familiar example in this category is the classic phenomenon of temper
        embrittlement...
        https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=kts&NM=211




        You do not want phosphorus mixed with your steel. It will make it brittle. You want a thin layer on the outside. That hardens the outer layer, where you want it to hold and edge. Also that outer layer offers corrosion resistance, which you do not need on the sword interior.



        Your question does not state that the swords are steel. Maybe they are bronze. Phosphor bronze.




        Phosphor bronze is an alloy of copper with 0.5–11% of tin and
        0.01–0.35% phosphorus. The tin increases the corrosion resistance and strength of the alloy. The phosphorus increases the wear resistance
        and stiffness of the alloy.




        If you had Bronze Age tech, phosphor bronze would be excellent sword making stuff. Wikipedia shows a phosphor bronze ship propeller - for tool making applications this would be great, and a dip in high phosphorus dragon blood would be a way to get a layer of phosphor bronze on the outside of your bronze weapon.





        I got this idea because I thought I had read that the druids did exactly this with swords and human blood - quenched them in blood to harden the outside, which was accomplished by the high phosphorus content of blood. Animals run on ATP which is a high energy phosphorus compound and so all blood has a lot of phosphorus. You could make dragon blood exceptionally high - perhaps they need a lot of circulating ATP to produce fire.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          12 hours ago














        9












        9








        9





        $begingroup$

        Dragon blood is rich in phosphorus.




        Phosphorus in steel can have beneficial as well as harmful effects.
        Phosphorus is one of the most potent solid-solution strengtheners of
        ferrite. The addition of only 0.17% phosphorus increases both the
        yield and tensile strength of low-carbon sheet steel by about 62 MPa
        (9 ksi) while also improving the bake hardening response and deep
        drawability... Phosphorus is also used as an additive in steels to
        improve machining characteristics and atmospheric corrosion
        resistance.



        Detrimental effects of phosphorus in steel include various forms of
        embrittlement which reduce the toughness and ductility. The most
        familiar example in this category is the classic phenomenon of temper
        embrittlement...
        https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=kts&NM=211




        You do not want phosphorus mixed with your steel. It will make it brittle. You want a thin layer on the outside. That hardens the outer layer, where you want it to hold and edge. Also that outer layer offers corrosion resistance, which you do not need on the sword interior.



        Your question does not state that the swords are steel. Maybe they are bronze. Phosphor bronze.




        Phosphor bronze is an alloy of copper with 0.5–11% of tin and
        0.01–0.35% phosphorus. The tin increases the corrosion resistance and strength of the alloy. The phosphorus increases the wear resistance
        and stiffness of the alloy.




        If you had Bronze Age tech, phosphor bronze would be excellent sword making stuff. Wikipedia shows a phosphor bronze ship propeller - for tool making applications this would be great, and a dip in high phosphorus dragon blood would be a way to get a layer of phosphor bronze on the outside of your bronze weapon.





        I got this idea because I thought I had read that the druids did exactly this with swords and human blood - quenched them in blood to harden the outside, which was accomplished by the high phosphorus content of blood. Animals run on ATP which is a high energy phosphorus compound and so all blood has a lot of phosphorus. You could make dragon blood exceptionally high - perhaps they need a lot of circulating ATP to produce fire.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Dragon blood is rich in phosphorus.




        Phosphorus in steel can have beneficial as well as harmful effects.
        Phosphorus is one of the most potent solid-solution strengtheners of
        ferrite. The addition of only 0.17% phosphorus increases both the
        yield and tensile strength of low-carbon sheet steel by about 62 MPa
        (9 ksi) while also improving the bake hardening response and deep
        drawability... Phosphorus is also used as an additive in steels to
        improve machining characteristics and atmospheric corrosion
        resistance.



        Detrimental effects of phosphorus in steel include various forms of
        embrittlement which reduce the toughness and ductility. The most
        familiar example in this category is the classic phenomenon of temper
        embrittlement...
        https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=kts&NM=211




        You do not want phosphorus mixed with your steel. It will make it brittle. You want a thin layer on the outside. That hardens the outer layer, where you want it to hold and edge. Also that outer layer offers corrosion resistance, which you do not need on the sword interior.



        Your question does not state that the swords are steel. Maybe they are bronze. Phosphor bronze.




        Phosphor bronze is an alloy of copper with 0.5–11% of tin and
        0.01–0.35% phosphorus. The tin increases the corrosion resistance and strength of the alloy. The phosphorus increases the wear resistance
        and stiffness of the alloy.




        If you had Bronze Age tech, phosphor bronze would be excellent sword making stuff. Wikipedia shows a phosphor bronze ship propeller - for tool making applications this would be great, and a dip in high phosphorus dragon blood would be a way to get a layer of phosphor bronze on the outside of your bronze weapon.





        I got this idea because I thought I had read that the druids did exactly this with swords and human blood - quenched them in blood to harden the outside, which was accomplished by the high phosphorus content of blood. Animals run on ATP which is a high energy phosphorus compound and so all blood has a lot of phosphorus. You could make dragon blood exceptionally high - perhaps they need a lot of circulating ATP to produce fire.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 16 hours ago









        WillkWillk

        110k26205458




        110k26205458












        • $begingroup$
          quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          12 hours ago


















        • $begingroup$
          quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
          $endgroup$
          – Mołot
          13 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          12 hours ago
















        $begingroup$
        quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        15 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        quenching a sword in a phosphorus will have zero effect on the phosphorus content, its not hot enough to be incorporated, and any thin crust will be ground off during sharpening. but good point about a bronze sword being possible.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        15 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
        $endgroup$
        – Mołot
        13 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        @John Dragon blood is not pure phosphorus. Aren't there any additives that would make it happen in quenching temperatures?
        $endgroup$
        – Mołot
        13 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        12 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        No, diffusion is pretty straightforward in solids.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        12 hours ago











        9












        $begingroup$

        Dragons' blood is an absurdly good insulator. Now, normally this would not be quite what you want for quenching, but Dragons' blood is also magical.



        Quenching a blade in Dragons' blood is not like a normal quenching - it's more like aging a whiskey. You heat the blade to white-hot, plunge it into the blood, seal it up, and leave it for a month or so.



        The blade then cools incredibly slowly. Aided by the intrinsic magic of the blood purifying the lattice and eliminating dislocations, the end result is a nigh-indestructible monocrystalline blade which requires no further tempering.



        The blade must then be sharpened by magic, resulting in this monomolecular blade having an edge only a handful of atoms thick - but despite the magic involved in the forging process, no actual magical properties are imposed on the sword itself.



        (This also explains why Dragons sleep on hoards of gold and treasures made from other metals - the magic in their blood interacts with the metal, giving them the same basking feeling that a lizard gets in the hot sun)






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
          $endgroup$
          – Garrett Motzner
          5 hours ago
















        9












        $begingroup$

        Dragons' blood is an absurdly good insulator. Now, normally this would not be quite what you want for quenching, but Dragons' blood is also magical.



        Quenching a blade in Dragons' blood is not like a normal quenching - it's more like aging a whiskey. You heat the blade to white-hot, plunge it into the blood, seal it up, and leave it for a month or so.



        The blade then cools incredibly slowly. Aided by the intrinsic magic of the blood purifying the lattice and eliminating dislocations, the end result is a nigh-indestructible monocrystalline blade which requires no further tempering.



        The blade must then be sharpened by magic, resulting in this monomolecular blade having an edge only a handful of atoms thick - but despite the magic involved in the forging process, no actual magical properties are imposed on the sword itself.



        (This also explains why Dragons sleep on hoards of gold and treasures made from other metals - the magic in their blood interacts with the metal, giving them the same basking feeling that a lizard gets in the hot sun)






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
          $endgroup$
          – Garrett Motzner
          5 hours ago














        9












        9








        9





        $begingroup$

        Dragons' blood is an absurdly good insulator. Now, normally this would not be quite what you want for quenching, but Dragons' blood is also magical.



        Quenching a blade in Dragons' blood is not like a normal quenching - it's more like aging a whiskey. You heat the blade to white-hot, plunge it into the blood, seal it up, and leave it for a month or so.



        The blade then cools incredibly slowly. Aided by the intrinsic magic of the blood purifying the lattice and eliminating dislocations, the end result is a nigh-indestructible monocrystalline blade which requires no further tempering.



        The blade must then be sharpened by magic, resulting in this monomolecular blade having an edge only a handful of atoms thick - but despite the magic involved in the forging process, no actual magical properties are imposed on the sword itself.



        (This also explains why Dragons sleep on hoards of gold and treasures made from other metals - the magic in their blood interacts with the metal, giving them the same basking feeling that a lizard gets in the hot sun)






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Dragons' blood is an absurdly good insulator. Now, normally this would not be quite what you want for quenching, but Dragons' blood is also magical.



        Quenching a blade in Dragons' blood is not like a normal quenching - it's more like aging a whiskey. You heat the blade to white-hot, plunge it into the blood, seal it up, and leave it for a month or so.



        The blade then cools incredibly slowly. Aided by the intrinsic magic of the blood purifying the lattice and eliminating dislocations, the end result is a nigh-indestructible monocrystalline blade which requires no further tempering.



        The blade must then be sharpened by magic, resulting in this monomolecular blade having an edge only a handful of atoms thick - but despite the magic involved in the forging process, no actual magical properties are imposed on the sword itself.



        (This also explains why Dragons sleep on hoards of gold and treasures made from other metals - the magic in their blood interacts with the metal, giving them the same basking feeling that a lizard gets in the hot sun)







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 13 hours ago

























        answered 13 hours ago









        ChronocidalChronocidal

        5,8581728




        5,8581728








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
          $endgroup$
          – Garrett Motzner
          5 hours ago














        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
          $endgroup$
          – Garrett Motzner
          5 hours ago








        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
        $endgroup$
        – Garrett Motzner
        5 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        I like the idea (especially the "aged like whiskey" part), but I don't think mono-crystals behave like you think they do: reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/2fyqf6/monocrystalline_steel
        $endgroup$
        – Garrett Motzner
        5 hours ago











        3












        $begingroup$

        Better doesn't necessarily mean harder.



        Perhaps the dragon's blood is high in elements which are inherently poisonous to humans. A thin coating of mercury or arsenic on a blade can dramatically increase the killing effectiveness of the steel. Add to that real threat, the psychological burden of knowing that your enemy's blade is poisoned, and battles can be won before the blade is even drawn.



        Now go deeper than just a thin coating...



        Perhaps quenching a scalding hot blade in poisonous metals saturates the resulting steel with a lethality which can't just be wiped away. It is in the metal and will be the deciding factor of every battle in which the blade is used.



        Alternatively, the poison could be biochemical. Perhaps the dragon's blood contains a voracious infection which thrives in the scalding bloodstreams of dragons. When stored in the structure of cold steel, the microscopic life lays dormant until revived by hot human blood. Once activated, it quickly consumes the victim since human immune defenses are no match for a virus born in dragons. This alternative has the advantage that the blade could be handled, cleaned and cared for as long as it never came in touch with blood. It would be safer for it's wielder to carry than the elementally poisoned blade described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago
















        3












        $begingroup$

        Better doesn't necessarily mean harder.



        Perhaps the dragon's blood is high in elements which are inherently poisonous to humans. A thin coating of mercury or arsenic on a blade can dramatically increase the killing effectiveness of the steel. Add to that real threat, the psychological burden of knowing that your enemy's blade is poisoned, and battles can be won before the blade is even drawn.



        Now go deeper than just a thin coating...



        Perhaps quenching a scalding hot blade in poisonous metals saturates the resulting steel with a lethality which can't just be wiped away. It is in the metal and will be the deciding factor of every battle in which the blade is used.



        Alternatively, the poison could be biochemical. Perhaps the dragon's blood contains a voracious infection which thrives in the scalding bloodstreams of dragons. When stored in the structure of cold steel, the microscopic life lays dormant until revived by hot human blood. Once activated, it quickly consumes the victim since human immune defenses are no match for a virus born in dragons. This alternative has the advantage that the blade could be handled, cleaned and cared for as long as it never came in touch with blood. It would be safer for it's wielder to carry than the elementally poisoned blade described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago














        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        Better doesn't necessarily mean harder.



        Perhaps the dragon's blood is high in elements which are inherently poisonous to humans. A thin coating of mercury or arsenic on a blade can dramatically increase the killing effectiveness of the steel. Add to that real threat, the psychological burden of knowing that your enemy's blade is poisoned, and battles can be won before the blade is even drawn.



        Now go deeper than just a thin coating...



        Perhaps quenching a scalding hot blade in poisonous metals saturates the resulting steel with a lethality which can't just be wiped away. It is in the metal and will be the deciding factor of every battle in which the blade is used.



        Alternatively, the poison could be biochemical. Perhaps the dragon's blood contains a voracious infection which thrives in the scalding bloodstreams of dragons. When stored in the structure of cold steel, the microscopic life lays dormant until revived by hot human blood. Once activated, it quickly consumes the victim since human immune defenses are no match for a virus born in dragons. This alternative has the advantage that the blade could be handled, cleaned and cared for as long as it never came in touch with blood. It would be safer for it's wielder to carry than the elementally poisoned blade described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Better doesn't necessarily mean harder.



        Perhaps the dragon's blood is high in elements which are inherently poisonous to humans. A thin coating of mercury or arsenic on a blade can dramatically increase the killing effectiveness of the steel. Add to that real threat, the psychological burden of knowing that your enemy's blade is poisoned, and battles can be won before the blade is even drawn.



        Now go deeper than just a thin coating...



        Perhaps quenching a scalding hot blade in poisonous metals saturates the resulting steel with a lethality which can't just be wiped away. It is in the metal and will be the deciding factor of every battle in which the blade is used.



        Alternatively, the poison could be biochemical. Perhaps the dragon's blood contains a voracious infection which thrives in the scalding bloodstreams of dragons. When stored in the structure of cold steel, the microscopic life lays dormant until revived by hot human blood. Once activated, it quickly consumes the victim since human immune defenses are no match for a virus born in dragons. This alternative has the advantage that the blade could be handled, cleaned and cared for as long as it never came in touch with blood. It would be safer for it's wielder to carry than the elementally poisoned blade described above.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday

























        answered yesterday









        Henry TaylorHenry Taylor

        46k872167




        46k872167












        • $begingroup$
          You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago


















        • $begingroup$
          You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          14 hours ago
















        $begingroup$
        You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        You can't incorporate anything into the steel by quenching it it, if you added it while the steel was still molten you might be able to incorporate it, but steel is not liquid enough to diffuse into during a quench.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        14 hours ago











        2












        $begingroup$

        Quenching is the process in which steel is cooled from extremely high temperatures to not so high ones. the faster the cooling the harder the steel. According to a few pages I just read nothing is faster at dispersing thermal energy from other materials than water.



        So in order to make dragons blood superior for quenching to water, we need to find its one flaw. that is water cools steel so quickly that it doesn't cool evenly which is absolutely necessary to create perfect steel.



        So all you need to do to make your dragon blood so amazing is have the perfect ratio of water to any other materials in the blood to make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water. You need no special chemical properties or materials, just the right ratio of water to not water. I hope this makes sense and is helpful. Thank you :)






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
          $endgroup$
          – Nyakouai
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago
















        2












        $begingroup$

        Quenching is the process in which steel is cooled from extremely high temperatures to not so high ones. the faster the cooling the harder the steel. According to a few pages I just read nothing is faster at dispersing thermal energy from other materials than water.



        So in order to make dragons blood superior for quenching to water, we need to find its one flaw. that is water cools steel so quickly that it doesn't cool evenly which is absolutely necessary to create perfect steel.



        So all you need to do to make your dragon blood so amazing is have the perfect ratio of water to any other materials in the blood to make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water. You need no special chemical properties or materials, just the right ratio of water to not water. I hope this makes sense and is helpful. Thank you :)






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
          $endgroup$
          – Nyakouai
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago














        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        Quenching is the process in which steel is cooled from extremely high temperatures to not so high ones. the faster the cooling the harder the steel. According to a few pages I just read nothing is faster at dispersing thermal energy from other materials than water.



        So in order to make dragons blood superior for quenching to water, we need to find its one flaw. that is water cools steel so quickly that it doesn't cool evenly which is absolutely necessary to create perfect steel.



        So all you need to do to make your dragon blood so amazing is have the perfect ratio of water to any other materials in the blood to make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water. You need no special chemical properties or materials, just the right ratio of water to not water. I hope this makes sense and is helpful. Thank you :)






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$



        Quenching is the process in which steel is cooled from extremely high temperatures to not so high ones. the faster the cooling the harder the steel. According to a few pages I just read nothing is faster at dispersing thermal energy from other materials than water.



        So in order to make dragons blood superior for quenching to water, we need to find its one flaw. that is water cools steel so quickly that it doesn't cool evenly which is absolutely necessary to create perfect steel.



        So all you need to do to make your dragon blood so amazing is have the perfect ratio of water to any other materials in the blood to make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water. You need no special chemical properties or materials, just the right ratio of water to not water. I hope this makes sense and is helpful. Thank you :)







        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 14 hours ago









        Renan

        49.5k13115248




        49.5k13115248






        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        answered yesterday









        Elias Rowan AlbatrossElias Rowan Albatross

        31410




        31410




        New contributor




        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





        New contributor





        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        Elias Rowan Albatross is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.












        • $begingroup$
          Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
          $endgroup$
          – Nyakouai
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago


















        • $begingroup$
          Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
          $endgroup$
          – Nyakouai
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          15 hours ago










        • $begingroup$
          @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago












        • $begingroup$
          :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
          $endgroup$
          – Elias Rowan Albatross
          14 hours ago
















        $begingroup$
        Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        Brine cools steel faster than normal water, faster cooling is not good for a sword, it makes steel brittle.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago














        $begingroup$
        @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
        $endgroup$
        – Nyakouai
        15 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        @John "make the cooling faster than that of oil or salt bathing, but not as fast as water." Nowhere said faster than water. It's "better than water through a better ratio and cooling process due to chemical properties"
        $endgroup$
        – Nyakouai
        15 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        15 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        Even oils cool too quickly for ideal results, there is no upside to cooling faster. You are not going to be using dragon blood to add carbon, you can already mine graphite and more importantly make charcoal.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        15 hours ago












        $begingroup$
        @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago






        $begingroup$
        @John you did worry me that I had made a mistake so I took your wisdom and did a little more research. here's what i found, please take a look: " Water is the quickest quenching method." - jfheattreatinginc.com/2017/01/… "brine wets the metal surface and cools it more rapidly than water" - quora.com/… it seems something that should be basic fact has been turned into somewhat of an opinionated matter.
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago














        $begingroup$
        :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        :P and then there are people like this: "I've been using canola oil for quenching my 5160" - bladeforums.com/threads/quench-speed.1155941
        $endgroup$
        – Elias Rowan Albatross
        14 hours ago











        1












        $begingroup$

        It's a little-known fact that dragon's blood has an exceptionally high graphite content, a byproduct of their evolution from the igneous realms of the molten hearts of mountains. Graphite is a blacksmith's friend for three reasons. First, being elemental carbon, it can be used in the production of weapon-grade steel. One fist of dragon's blood for every twelve fists of molten iron has been found to be the ideal ratio for the hardest "dragon steel". Second, graphite is an excellent refractory material able to provide stable heat insulation across a wide range of temperatures. When quenching hot steel in dragon's blood, the liquid effectively becomes a kiln that cools weapon steel evenly and, by coincidence or godly design, at the ideal rate that ensures maximum hardness. Finally, graphite is a superb lubricator, and the use of dragon's blood while grinding a dragon steel blade is known to yield the sharpest possible edge.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago
















        1












        $begingroup$

        It's a little-known fact that dragon's blood has an exceptionally high graphite content, a byproduct of their evolution from the igneous realms of the molten hearts of mountains. Graphite is a blacksmith's friend for three reasons. First, being elemental carbon, it can be used in the production of weapon-grade steel. One fist of dragon's blood for every twelve fists of molten iron has been found to be the ideal ratio for the hardest "dragon steel". Second, graphite is an excellent refractory material able to provide stable heat insulation across a wide range of temperatures. When quenching hot steel in dragon's blood, the liquid effectively becomes a kiln that cools weapon steel evenly and, by coincidence or godly design, at the ideal rate that ensures maximum hardness. Finally, graphite is a superb lubricator, and the use of dragon's blood while grinding a dragon steel blade is known to yield the sharpest possible edge.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













        • $begingroup$
          lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago














        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        It's a little-known fact that dragon's blood has an exceptionally high graphite content, a byproduct of their evolution from the igneous realms of the molten hearts of mountains. Graphite is a blacksmith's friend for three reasons. First, being elemental carbon, it can be used in the production of weapon-grade steel. One fist of dragon's blood for every twelve fists of molten iron has been found to be the ideal ratio for the hardest "dragon steel". Second, graphite is an excellent refractory material able to provide stable heat insulation across a wide range of temperatures. When quenching hot steel in dragon's blood, the liquid effectively becomes a kiln that cools weapon steel evenly and, by coincidence or godly design, at the ideal rate that ensures maximum hardness. Finally, graphite is a superb lubricator, and the use of dragon's blood while grinding a dragon steel blade is known to yield the sharpest possible edge.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        It's a little-known fact that dragon's blood has an exceptionally high graphite content, a byproduct of their evolution from the igneous realms of the molten hearts of mountains. Graphite is a blacksmith's friend for three reasons. First, being elemental carbon, it can be used in the production of weapon-grade steel. One fist of dragon's blood for every twelve fists of molten iron has been found to be the ideal ratio for the hardest "dragon steel". Second, graphite is an excellent refractory material able to provide stable heat insulation across a wide range of temperatures. When quenching hot steel in dragon's blood, the liquid effectively becomes a kiln that cools weapon steel evenly and, by coincidence or godly design, at the ideal rate that ensures maximum hardness. Finally, graphite is a superb lubricator, and the use of dragon's blood while grinding a dragon steel blade is known to yield the sharpest possible edge.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered yesterday









        dhinson919dhinson919

        61816




        61816












        • $begingroup$
          lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago


















        • $begingroup$
          lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
          $endgroup$
          – John
          16 hours ago
















        $begingroup$
        lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        lubrication is generally not an issue with sharpening, oils and such are used to protect the stone so it can be reused, not to make for a sharper blade.
        $endgroup$
        – John
        16 hours ago











        1












        $begingroup$

        Well cooling metal too slowly results in it being too soft but cooling it too fast results in it being hard but brittle. Dragons blood you see, it contains metals that get heated when it breaths fire and then they are cooled in a controlled way by the blood. The result is that these metals are cooled not too fast, not too slow but just right. so that it can use them in its scales. dragon blood has evolved to do this. when you quench metal in this blood you will benefit from its properties.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        $endgroup$


















          1












          $begingroup$

          Well cooling metal too slowly results in it being too soft but cooling it too fast results in it being hard but brittle. Dragons blood you see, it contains metals that get heated when it breaths fire and then they are cooled in a controlled way by the blood. The result is that these metals are cooled not too fast, not too slow but just right. so that it can use them in its scales. dragon blood has evolved to do this. when you quench metal in this blood you will benefit from its properties.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$
















            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            Well cooling metal too slowly results in it being too soft but cooling it too fast results in it being hard but brittle. Dragons blood you see, it contains metals that get heated when it breaths fire and then they are cooled in a controlled way by the blood. The result is that these metals are cooled not too fast, not too slow but just right. so that it can use them in its scales. dragon blood has evolved to do this. when you quench metal in this blood you will benefit from its properties.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            $endgroup$



            Well cooling metal too slowly results in it being too soft but cooling it too fast results in it being hard but brittle. Dragons blood you see, it contains metals that get heated when it breaths fire and then they are cooled in a controlled way by the blood. The result is that these metals are cooled not too fast, not too slow but just right. so that it can use them in its scales. dragon blood has evolved to do this. when you quench metal in this blood you will benefit from its properties.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered 17 hours ago









            Mphiwe NtuliMphiwe Ntuli

            692




            692




            New contributor




            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            Mphiwe Ntuli is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.























                1












                $begingroup$

                Dragons are usually big and armored, begging the question of where the square cube law was when they were created. But there are solutions. As material sciences advance we notice that molecularly perfect substances often exibit extreme proporties, so we can only assume that Dragons have evolved to create many of these materials to strengthen themselves and make them able to support their own weight.



                Damascan steel managed to get very strong and still elastic through nanowires and carbon Nanotubes that were enclosed in the metal. Such materials could be present in dragon's blood especially if parts of the dragon were ground into the blood.



                What happens during the quenching is that these materials coat the blade, providing a superior resiliance to shattering, dentation and needing less effort to remain sharp. If you then use folded steel and quench between foldings you create many layers of this coating inside the blade, making them have superior properties in strength, resilience, maintenancr and resistance to damage/shattering.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Monty Harder
                  12 hours ago
















                1












                $begingroup$

                Dragons are usually big and armored, begging the question of where the square cube law was when they were created. But there are solutions. As material sciences advance we notice that molecularly perfect substances often exibit extreme proporties, so we can only assume that Dragons have evolved to create many of these materials to strengthen themselves and make them able to support their own weight.



                Damascan steel managed to get very strong and still elastic through nanowires and carbon Nanotubes that were enclosed in the metal. Such materials could be present in dragon's blood especially if parts of the dragon were ground into the blood.



                What happens during the quenching is that these materials coat the blade, providing a superior resiliance to shattering, dentation and needing less effort to remain sharp. If you then use folded steel and quench between foldings you create many layers of this coating inside the blade, making them have superior properties in strength, resilience, maintenancr and resistance to damage/shattering.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Monty Harder
                  12 hours ago














                1












                1








                1





                $begingroup$

                Dragons are usually big and armored, begging the question of where the square cube law was when they were created. But there are solutions. As material sciences advance we notice that molecularly perfect substances often exibit extreme proporties, so we can only assume that Dragons have evolved to create many of these materials to strengthen themselves and make them able to support their own weight.



                Damascan steel managed to get very strong and still elastic through nanowires and carbon Nanotubes that were enclosed in the metal. Such materials could be present in dragon's blood especially if parts of the dragon were ground into the blood.



                What happens during the quenching is that these materials coat the blade, providing a superior resiliance to shattering, dentation and needing less effort to remain sharp. If you then use folded steel and quench between foldings you create many layers of this coating inside the blade, making them have superior properties in strength, resilience, maintenancr and resistance to damage/shattering.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Dragons are usually big and armored, begging the question of where the square cube law was when they were created. But there are solutions. As material sciences advance we notice that molecularly perfect substances often exibit extreme proporties, so we can only assume that Dragons have evolved to create many of these materials to strengthen themselves and make them able to support their own weight.



                Damascan steel managed to get very strong and still elastic through nanowires and carbon Nanotubes that were enclosed in the metal. Such materials could be present in dragon's blood especially if parts of the dragon were ground into the blood.



                What happens during the quenching is that these materials coat the blade, providing a superior resiliance to shattering, dentation and needing less effort to remain sharp. If you then use folded steel and quench between foldings you create many layers of this coating inside the blade, making them have superior properties in strength, resilience, maintenancr and resistance to damage/shattering.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 14 hours ago









                DemiganDemigan

                9,6981947




                9,6981947












                • $begingroup$
                  It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Monty Harder
                  12 hours ago


















                • $begingroup$
                  It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Monty Harder
                  12 hours ago
















                $begingroup$
                It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                $endgroup$
                – Monty Harder
                12 hours ago




                $begingroup$
                It doesn't beg the question; it raises it.
                $endgroup$
                – Monty Harder
                12 hours ago











                1












                $begingroup$

                Dragon's blood is an ideal medium for austempering



                While most blades, to this day, are made using water or oil as the quench medium in the traditional quenching and tempering process that James mentions, producing a tempered martensite microstructure, this is actually not the ideal microstructure for a given hardness. The work of Bain and his colleagues in the 1930s on isothermal transformations in steel led to the discovery of a superior microstructure, namely upper bainite, with improved toughness at a given hardness for typical blade hardnesses (above 40 on the Rockwell C hardness scale). However, it isn't achievable in ordinary carbon steel using typical, continuous-cooling quench media. Modern production dunks the part in a molten salt (nitrite/nitrate) bath that cools the part to an isothermal transformation temperature, then holds it there to effect the transformation before pulling it out and letting it air-cool post-austemper, or uses special alloys that can form bainite during a continuous cooling process. This is known as austempering, and is commonly used for high-strength steel parts such as rifle bolts (all the way back to WWII) and seat belt parts in cars.



                In your case, though, you can do better. The blood of your dragons is a high-boiling liquid (very low vapor pressure) with excellent thermal stability, and a high specific heat capacity, making it ideal for austempering a blade as it will not boil off, decompose, react with the blade, or change in temperature much when the part is added. In this process, the quench tank would be almost like a cauldron, kept hot (but not too hot!) with a stoked fire, and the parts would be held in the quench medium for a significant length of time, effecting an isothermal austemper and producing tougher, stronger blades for a given hardness at a minor tradeoff in absolute hardness achievable. Once done, the part would be removed from the bath, washed, and for a blade taken straight to the grinding wheel for sharpening, as austempered parts need no further heat treatment.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  Dragon's blood is an ideal medium for austempering



                  While most blades, to this day, are made using water or oil as the quench medium in the traditional quenching and tempering process that James mentions, producing a tempered martensite microstructure, this is actually not the ideal microstructure for a given hardness. The work of Bain and his colleagues in the 1930s on isothermal transformations in steel led to the discovery of a superior microstructure, namely upper bainite, with improved toughness at a given hardness for typical blade hardnesses (above 40 on the Rockwell C hardness scale). However, it isn't achievable in ordinary carbon steel using typical, continuous-cooling quench media. Modern production dunks the part in a molten salt (nitrite/nitrate) bath that cools the part to an isothermal transformation temperature, then holds it there to effect the transformation before pulling it out and letting it air-cool post-austemper, or uses special alloys that can form bainite during a continuous cooling process. This is known as austempering, and is commonly used for high-strength steel parts such as rifle bolts (all the way back to WWII) and seat belt parts in cars.



                  In your case, though, you can do better. The blood of your dragons is a high-boiling liquid (very low vapor pressure) with excellent thermal stability, and a high specific heat capacity, making it ideal for austempering a blade as it will not boil off, decompose, react with the blade, or change in temperature much when the part is added. In this process, the quench tank would be almost like a cauldron, kept hot (but not too hot!) with a stoked fire, and the parts would be held in the quench medium for a significant length of time, effecting an isothermal austemper and producing tougher, stronger blades for a given hardness at a minor tradeoff in absolute hardness achievable. Once done, the part would be removed from the bath, washed, and for a blade taken straight to the grinding wheel for sharpening, as austempered parts need no further heat treatment.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    1












                    1








                    1





                    $begingroup$

                    Dragon's blood is an ideal medium for austempering



                    While most blades, to this day, are made using water or oil as the quench medium in the traditional quenching and tempering process that James mentions, producing a tempered martensite microstructure, this is actually not the ideal microstructure for a given hardness. The work of Bain and his colleagues in the 1930s on isothermal transformations in steel led to the discovery of a superior microstructure, namely upper bainite, with improved toughness at a given hardness for typical blade hardnesses (above 40 on the Rockwell C hardness scale). However, it isn't achievable in ordinary carbon steel using typical, continuous-cooling quench media. Modern production dunks the part in a molten salt (nitrite/nitrate) bath that cools the part to an isothermal transformation temperature, then holds it there to effect the transformation before pulling it out and letting it air-cool post-austemper, or uses special alloys that can form bainite during a continuous cooling process. This is known as austempering, and is commonly used for high-strength steel parts such as rifle bolts (all the way back to WWII) and seat belt parts in cars.



                    In your case, though, you can do better. The blood of your dragons is a high-boiling liquid (very low vapor pressure) with excellent thermal stability, and a high specific heat capacity, making it ideal for austempering a blade as it will not boil off, decompose, react with the blade, or change in temperature much when the part is added. In this process, the quench tank would be almost like a cauldron, kept hot (but not too hot!) with a stoked fire, and the parts would be held in the quench medium for a significant length of time, effecting an isothermal austemper and producing tougher, stronger blades for a given hardness at a minor tradeoff in absolute hardness achievable. Once done, the part would be removed from the bath, washed, and for a blade taken straight to the grinding wheel for sharpening, as austempered parts need no further heat treatment.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    Dragon's blood is an ideal medium for austempering



                    While most blades, to this day, are made using water or oil as the quench medium in the traditional quenching and tempering process that James mentions, producing a tempered martensite microstructure, this is actually not the ideal microstructure for a given hardness. The work of Bain and his colleagues in the 1930s on isothermal transformations in steel led to the discovery of a superior microstructure, namely upper bainite, with improved toughness at a given hardness for typical blade hardnesses (above 40 on the Rockwell C hardness scale). However, it isn't achievable in ordinary carbon steel using typical, continuous-cooling quench media. Modern production dunks the part in a molten salt (nitrite/nitrate) bath that cools the part to an isothermal transformation temperature, then holds it there to effect the transformation before pulling it out and letting it air-cool post-austemper, or uses special alloys that can form bainite during a continuous cooling process. This is known as austempering, and is commonly used for high-strength steel parts such as rifle bolts (all the way back to WWII) and seat belt parts in cars.



                    In your case, though, you can do better. The blood of your dragons is a high-boiling liquid (very low vapor pressure) with excellent thermal stability, and a high specific heat capacity, making it ideal for austempering a blade as it will not boil off, decompose, react with the blade, or change in temperature much when the part is added. In this process, the quench tank would be almost like a cauldron, kept hot (but not too hot!) with a stoked fire, and the parts would be held in the quench medium for a significant length of time, effecting an isothermal austemper and producing tougher, stronger blades for a given hardness at a minor tradeoff in absolute hardness achievable. Once done, the part would be removed from the bath, washed, and for a blade taken straight to the grinding wheel for sharpening, as austempered parts need no further heat treatment.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 6 hours ago









                    ShalvenayShalvenay

                    6,78832765




                    6,78832765























                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        Dragons are fierce creatures the size of small commercial jets. The forces involved when they fight are intense. Consequently, they need many unique adaptations just to avoid bleeding to death or becoming permanently disabled in the course of their frequent scuffles.



                        One of those adaptations is an advanced clotting factor in their blood. When exposed to intense heat it forms a strong impermeable coating film w/ over 2-3x the toughness & 3-6x the tensile strength by weight of spider silk, & at a density comparable to steel. Quenching in Dragon's Blood thus deposits a microscopic coating that happens to bond to steel really well (due to little understood adaptations for rapid bone regeneration that apparently rely on high concentrations of several organometallic compounds dissolved in their blood) and which far exceeds the performance of any synthetic materials we can hope to make.





                        share









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Dragons are fierce creatures the size of small commercial jets. The forces involved when they fight are intense. Consequently, they need many unique adaptations just to avoid bleeding to death or becoming permanently disabled in the course of their frequent scuffles.



                          One of those adaptations is an advanced clotting factor in their blood. When exposed to intense heat it forms a strong impermeable coating film w/ over 2-3x the toughness & 3-6x the tensile strength by weight of spider silk, & at a density comparable to steel. Quenching in Dragon's Blood thus deposits a microscopic coating that happens to bond to steel really well (due to little understood adaptations for rapid bone regeneration that apparently rely on high concentrations of several organometallic compounds dissolved in their blood) and which far exceeds the performance of any synthetic materials we can hope to make.





                          share









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            Dragons are fierce creatures the size of small commercial jets. The forces involved when they fight are intense. Consequently, they need many unique adaptations just to avoid bleeding to death or becoming permanently disabled in the course of their frequent scuffles.



                            One of those adaptations is an advanced clotting factor in their blood. When exposed to intense heat it forms a strong impermeable coating film w/ over 2-3x the toughness & 3-6x the tensile strength by weight of spider silk, & at a density comparable to steel. Quenching in Dragon's Blood thus deposits a microscopic coating that happens to bond to steel really well (due to little understood adaptations for rapid bone regeneration that apparently rely on high concentrations of several organometallic compounds dissolved in their blood) and which far exceeds the performance of any synthetic materials we can hope to make.





                            share









                            $endgroup$



                            Dragons are fierce creatures the size of small commercial jets. The forces involved when they fight are intense. Consequently, they need many unique adaptations just to avoid bleeding to death or becoming permanently disabled in the course of their frequent scuffles.



                            One of those adaptations is an advanced clotting factor in their blood. When exposed to intense heat it forms a strong impermeable coating film w/ over 2-3x the toughness & 3-6x the tensile strength by weight of spider silk, & at a density comparable to steel. Quenching in Dragon's Blood thus deposits a microscopic coating that happens to bond to steel really well (due to little understood adaptations for rapid bone regeneration that apparently rely on high concentrations of several organometallic compounds dissolved in their blood) and which far exceeds the performance of any synthetic materials we can hope to make.






                            share











                            share


                            share










                            answered 7 mins ago









                            Nathan SmithNathan Smith

                            1845




                            1845






























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