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Can you tell from a blurry photo if focus was too close or too far?


Nikon D3000 Blurry Pictures. Focus Issue?does depth of field travel with the focal plane?Nikon D3300 - Trouble Focusing on Birds both Stationary & MovingHow to take a photo of a close-up object without focus stacking?How can lens cause consistent front or back focus?What is the most general theoretical reason images out of focus appear blurry?Understanding focus distance of Nikon f/1.8D lens with D5600 CameraAre focus and resolving power optically equivalent?Focal length measurement and definition in DSLR camerasCan you determine if focus is sharp without diopter adjustment if your sight is imperfect?













42















If you focus on a focal plane that is sufficiently in front of your subject, or past it (relative to depth of field), the subject will appear blurry. Is there some way of telling purely from the resulting blur if focus was too near or far?



EDIT: the original question has now gotten some good answers, but I noticed it got misinterpreted a couple of times. That indicates it wasn't posed clearly enough, so I edited it a bit. Furthermore I'll illustrate the point a bit more below.



Take this setup with subject, lens and film or sensor in which the subject is sharply focused (the focal plane intersects with it).



focal_plane_on_subject



Now imagine if the focus is placed behind the subject. This is called "back-focus". The projection of the subject onto the film/sensor becomes blurry, with the actual convergence point for light from the subject being behind it. Light point sources from the subject become discs (or a bokeh shape specific to the aperture).



focal_plane_behind_subject



Next, put the focus in front of the subject. This is called "front-focus". The projection again becomes blurry, but this time because the convergence point for light from the subject is in front of the film/sensor. So the blurred projection is actually inverted.



focal_plane_in_front_of_subject



The question was then, is this difference in blur in some way identifiable through nothing but the resulting picture?



As for the reason for asking, I shoot film so I don't have immediate feedback regarding the result. I keep notes of my shots but I don't have EXIF data, so things such as focal length and distance to subject are an approximation at best. Sometimes I shoot in low light and have to rely on manual focus. Things look sharp in the viewfinder but after development I find out focus has been slightly missed. Being able to figure out if it was too near or too far is then very useful, and can teach me whether it was user error and how to pay attention to it, or whether a specific camera or lens seems to have slight focusing issues and how I might compensate for that.










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

    – szulat
    Feb 26 at 11:18











  • Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

    – G_H
    2 days ago











  • Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

    – Makyen
    8 hours ago











  • @Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

    – G_H
    2 hours ago
















42















If you focus on a focal plane that is sufficiently in front of your subject, or past it (relative to depth of field), the subject will appear blurry. Is there some way of telling purely from the resulting blur if focus was too near or far?



EDIT: the original question has now gotten some good answers, but I noticed it got misinterpreted a couple of times. That indicates it wasn't posed clearly enough, so I edited it a bit. Furthermore I'll illustrate the point a bit more below.



Take this setup with subject, lens and film or sensor in which the subject is sharply focused (the focal plane intersects with it).



focal_plane_on_subject



Now imagine if the focus is placed behind the subject. This is called "back-focus". The projection of the subject onto the film/sensor becomes blurry, with the actual convergence point for light from the subject being behind it. Light point sources from the subject become discs (or a bokeh shape specific to the aperture).



focal_plane_behind_subject



Next, put the focus in front of the subject. This is called "front-focus". The projection again becomes blurry, but this time because the convergence point for light from the subject is in front of the film/sensor. So the blurred projection is actually inverted.



focal_plane_in_front_of_subject



The question was then, is this difference in blur in some way identifiable through nothing but the resulting picture?



As for the reason for asking, I shoot film so I don't have immediate feedback regarding the result. I keep notes of my shots but I don't have EXIF data, so things such as focal length and distance to subject are an approximation at best. Sometimes I shoot in low light and have to rely on manual focus. Things look sharp in the viewfinder but after development I find out focus has been slightly missed. Being able to figure out if it was too near or too far is then very useful, and can teach me whether it was user error and how to pay attention to it, or whether a specific camera or lens seems to have slight focusing issues and how I might compensate for that.










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

    – szulat
    Feb 26 at 11:18











  • Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

    – G_H
    2 days ago











  • Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

    – Makyen
    8 hours ago











  • @Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

    – G_H
    2 hours ago














42












42








42


7






If you focus on a focal plane that is sufficiently in front of your subject, or past it (relative to depth of field), the subject will appear blurry. Is there some way of telling purely from the resulting blur if focus was too near or far?



EDIT: the original question has now gotten some good answers, but I noticed it got misinterpreted a couple of times. That indicates it wasn't posed clearly enough, so I edited it a bit. Furthermore I'll illustrate the point a bit more below.



Take this setup with subject, lens and film or sensor in which the subject is sharply focused (the focal plane intersects with it).



focal_plane_on_subject



Now imagine if the focus is placed behind the subject. This is called "back-focus". The projection of the subject onto the film/sensor becomes blurry, with the actual convergence point for light from the subject being behind it. Light point sources from the subject become discs (or a bokeh shape specific to the aperture).



focal_plane_behind_subject



Next, put the focus in front of the subject. This is called "front-focus". The projection again becomes blurry, but this time because the convergence point for light from the subject is in front of the film/sensor. So the blurred projection is actually inverted.



focal_plane_in_front_of_subject



The question was then, is this difference in blur in some way identifiable through nothing but the resulting picture?



As for the reason for asking, I shoot film so I don't have immediate feedback regarding the result. I keep notes of my shots but I don't have EXIF data, so things such as focal length and distance to subject are an approximation at best. Sometimes I shoot in low light and have to rely on manual focus. Things look sharp in the viewfinder but after development I find out focus has been slightly missed. Being able to figure out if it was too near or too far is then very useful, and can teach me whether it was user error and how to pay attention to it, or whether a specific camera or lens seems to have slight focusing issues and how I might compensate for that.










share|improve this question
















If you focus on a focal plane that is sufficiently in front of your subject, or past it (relative to depth of field), the subject will appear blurry. Is there some way of telling purely from the resulting blur if focus was too near or far?



EDIT: the original question has now gotten some good answers, but I noticed it got misinterpreted a couple of times. That indicates it wasn't posed clearly enough, so I edited it a bit. Furthermore I'll illustrate the point a bit more below.



Take this setup with subject, lens and film or sensor in which the subject is sharply focused (the focal plane intersects with it).



focal_plane_on_subject



Now imagine if the focus is placed behind the subject. This is called "back-focus". The projection of the subject onto the film/sensor becomes blurry, with the actual convergence point for light from the subject being behind it. Light point sources from the subject become discs (or a bokeh shape specific to the aperture).



focal_plane_behind_subject



Next, put the focus in front of the subject. This is called "front-focus". The projection again becomes blurry, but this time because the convergence point for light from the subject is in front of the film/sensor. So the blurred projection is actually inverted.



focal_plane_in_front_of_subject



The question was then, is this difference in blur in some way identifiable through nothing but the resulting picture?



As for the reason for asking, I shoot film so I don't have immediate feedback regarding the result. I keep notes of my shots but I don't have EXIF data, so things such as focal length and distance to subject are an approximation at best. Sometimes I shoot in low light and have to rely on manual focus. Things look sharp in the viewfinder but after development I find out focus has been slightly missed. Being able to figure out if it was too near or too far is then very useful, and can teach me whether it was user error and how to pay attention to it, or whether a specific camera or lens seems to have slight focusing issues and how I might compensate for that.







focus blur focus-distance






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago







G_H

















asked Feb 26 at 9:50









G_HG_H

423212




423212








  • 2





    panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

    – szulat
    Feb 26 at 11:18











  • Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

    – G_H
    2 days ago











  • Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

    – Makyen
    8 hours ago











  • @Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

    – G_H
    2 hours ago














  • 2





    panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

    – szulat
    Feb 26 at 11:18











  • Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

    – G_H
    2 days ago











  • Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

    – Makyen
    8 hours ago











  • @Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

    – G_H
    2 hours ago








2




2





panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

– szulat
Feb 26 at 11:18





panasonic says they can imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM

– szulat
Feb 26 at 11:18













Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

– G_H
2 days ago





Edited a bit to make it clearer what I'm asking (and this this isn't about airplanes). If I got the convergence point for back or front focus wrong, please let me know! I don't have much knowledge regarding the physics behind optics.

– G_H
2 days ago













Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

– Makyen
8 hours ago





Editing Questions to improve them (e.g. clarification, adding additional information, etc.) is encouraged. However, editing a Question to change it into a different question which results in invalidating one or more Answers, is against Stack Exchange policy (even when your original question wasn't what you intended). Your most recent edit here (e.g. changing "picture" to "blur") did invalidate an answer. In such cases, you are encouraged to ask a new Question instead, perhaps with a link to this one for additional context.

– Makyen
8 hours ago













@Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

– G_H
2 hours ago





@Makyen Although those answers are useful and I have upvoted them, the ones that provided the answer for the intended question made the least amount of assumptions (i.e. there's other elements at different distances than the subjects). Unfortunately it seems that there can't be one definite answer anyway because any method to attempt this will depend one some factors that may or may not be found in the picture.

– G_H
2 hours ago










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















38














It depends. In many cases, it may actually be possible without any further visual aids in the picture.



Many lenses, if not most, will show different longitudinal chromatic aberration in front of and behind the focus plane. If you scroll down just a little bit on the linked page, you will see this demonstrated with a picture of a focus test chart. With this lens, the blur in front of the focus point will have purple colour fringing, while the blur behind the focus point will seem greenish.



If you know the characteristics of this lens, you could look at just a very small part of the image like e.g:



enter image description here



... and say for sure that this out-of-focus area is behind the focus plane.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5





    so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

    – ths
    2 days ago








  • 5





    @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

    – Aethenosity
    2 days ago








  • 2





    @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

    – jarnbjo
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

    – jarnbjo
    2 days ago






  • 4





    @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

    – G_H
    2 days ago



















19














When the aperture is positioned to minimize vignetting, the bokeh shapes for objects that are too far is rotated by 180° compared with objects that are too near. (The aperture image is reflected through its center point.) If the arrangement of your aperture blades is not symmetric around the center point, you can try finding "reference bokeh" that are clearly nearer or farther than the focus plane to compare with highlights on the subject to see whether the bokeh shapes match those that are near or far.



too neartoo far






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user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 1





    Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

    – G_H
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

    – jarnbjo
    2 days ago











  • I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

    – Ed Avis
    yesterday











  • @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

    – xiota
    yesterday













  • @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

    – xiota
    yesterday





















5














My answer only deals with "human" ways in differentiation - that is: No software, only your eyes and hands.



If I have no reference (as in: you blind me, you set the focus distance, and then I can only look through the viewfinder, but cannot change a thing), the answer is: it depends on what I can see.



Take, for example, an alley of trees: one in front, one where the subject stands, and one in the distance. When I see that the subject is not sharp, I can try to tell whether the tree in the foreground or the one in the background is more in focus.



If I have no reference - e.g., as Yaba mentioned, when taking a photo of a aeroplane with blue sky in the background and no foreground, then I have no way to know exactly (my guess would be that focus is too close, however, as planes tend to be somewhere near infinity).





The easiest way to find out usually is to slightly change the focus and see where it is (again, this works better with a reference than without).



But generally speaking, there is no sure way to differentiate - too short a focus distance does not lead to (significantly) different blur compared to a focus distance that is too long.






share|improve this answer































    5














    If the plane is too far or to close is just from the blur hard to say. the easiest way is to have objects in front and behind and see which one is sharp and so you could determine if it is too far or too close... this is the same way as it is done by calibrating the autofocus of a lens with a lenscal tool like this.



    without such objects its hard to tell it.






    share|improve this answer































      1














      No



      it is technically not possible to detect from the blur alone how far or in which direction the image is out of focus.



      This is the reason why contrast-detection autofocus systems have to "hunt" for focus by repeatedly changing the focus distance and checking whether the image got better or worse.



      In contrast, phase-detection AF systems know (theoretically) exactly how far and in which direction they have to change focus to achieve optimal sharpness.



      Of course the image changes if you take context clues from other objects in the picture into account (i.e. "guessing"), but that is something which currently ony organic viewers can do. This might change with AI algorithms in-camera, but i suspect other advances will improve on pure CD-AF before that. (see @szulat 's link from acomment:https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM)






      share|improve this answer



















      • 5





        In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

        – rackandboneman
        2 days ago






      • 1





        So, actually, yes?

        – Eric Duminil
        2 days ago






      • 3





        @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago













      • the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

        – ths
        yesterday






      • 2





        @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

        – Peter Cordes
        yesterday





















      1














      Yes, if the content includes edges at different distances.



      If you can tell that a further object is more blurred than a nearer one, then it's further from the plane of focus. That means that the focus is too short.



      Conversely, if the distant objects are less blurred than those in the foreground, the focus is too long.






      share|improve this answer































        0














        With a plane in the sky it gets hard. Unlike other objects at different distances available (birds, blouds,…) you cannot compare it easily visually.



        Some lens/camera combinations can track the focus distance and will write it into the EXIF. However this is not very reliable, but could give you a hint. When you know the plane type and therefore can look up its real size you can calculate its approximate distance and compare this to the focus distance.



        This page with its calculator can help you with this: https://www.scantips.com/lights/subjectdistance.html






        share|improve this answer





















        • 6





          Geometric plane not Aeroplane

          – Tetsujin
          Feb 26 at 10:44











        • Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

          – Yaba
          Feb 26 at 11:18






        • 8





          @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

          – G_H
          Feb 26 at 11:27






        • 1





          @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

          – G_H
          Feb 26 at 13:43











        • OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

          – Yaba
          2 days ago











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        votes









        38














        It depends. In many cases, it may actually be possible without any further visual aids in the picture.



        Many lenses, if not most, will show different longitudinal chromatic aberration in front of and behind the focus plane. If you scroll down just a little bit on the linked page, you will see this demonstrated with a picture of a focus test chart. With this lens, the blur in front of the focus point will have purple colour fringing, while the blur behind the focus point will seem greenish.



        If you know the characteristics of this lens, you could look at just a very small part of the image like e.g:



        enter image description here



        ... and say for sure that this out-of-focus area is behind the focus plane.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 5





          so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

          – ths
          2 days ago








        • 5





          @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

          – Aethenosity
          2 days ago








        • 2





          @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

          – G_H
          2 days ago
















        38














        It depends. In many cases, it may actually be possible without any further visual aids in the picture.



        Many lenses, if not most, will show different longitudinal chromatic aberration in front of and behind the focus plane. If you scroll down just a little bit on the linked page, you will see this demonstrated with a picture of a focus test chart. With this lens, the blur in front of the focus point will have purple colour fringing, while the blur behind the focus point will seem greenish.



        If you know the characteristics of this lens, you could look at just a very small part of the image like e.g:



        enter image description here



        ... and say for sure that this out-of-focus area is behind the focus plane.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 5





          so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

          – ths
          2 days ago








        • 5





          @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

          – Aethenosity
          2 days ago








        • 2





          @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

          – G_H
          2 days ago














        38












        38








        38







        It depends. In many cases, it may actually be possible without any further visual aids in the picture.



        Many lenses, if not most, will show different longitudinal chromatic aberration in front of and behind the focus plane. If you scroll down just a little bit on the linked page, you will see this demonstrated with a picture of a focus test chart. With this lens, the blur in front of the focus point will have purple colour fringing, while the blur behind the focus point will seem greenish.



        If you know the characteristics of this lens, you could look at just a very small part of the image like e.g:



        enter image description here



        ... and say for sure that this out-of-focus area is behind the focus plane.






        share|improve this answer













        It depends. In many cases, it may actually be possible without any further visual aids in the picture.



        Many lenses, if not most, will show different longitudinal chromatic aberration in front of and behind the focus plane. If you scroll down just a little bit on the linked page, you will see this demonstrated with a picture of a focus test chart. With this lens, the blur in front of the focus point will have purple colour fringing, while the blur behind the focus point will seem greenish.



        If you know the characteristics of this lens, you could look at just a very small part of the image like e.g:



        enter image description here



        ... and say for sure that this out-of-focus area is behind the focus plane.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 2 days ago









        jarnbjojarnbjo

        1,726710




        1,726710








        • 5





          so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

          – ths
          2 days ago








        • 5





          @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

          – Aethenosity
          2 days ago








        • 2





          @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

          – G_H
          2 days ago














        • 5





          so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

          – ths
          2 days ago








        • 5





          @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

          – Aethenosity
          2 days ago








        • 2





          @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago






        • 4





          @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

          – G_H
          2 days ago








        5




        5





        so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

        – ths
        2 days ago







        so, you can't determine it from the blur (which this question is asking about). you need additional information about the lens and other abberations.

        – ths
        2 days ago






        5




        5





        @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

        – Aethenosity
        2 days ago







        @ths i don't see it asking if you can tell from the blur itself. Can you quote that section? I only see "from a blurry photo" (which is different than just from the blur itself. Rather, it is the photo as a whole, which happens to be blurry), and "from the resulting picture" (which further broadens what the OP is asking for). But maybe I missed it, or the question was edited

        – Aethenosity
        2 days ago






        2




        2





        @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago





        @Aethenosity OP's mother tongue is probably not English, but that is also how I read the question: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago




        2




        2





        @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago





        @Aethenosity Like you said and like how I tried to rephrase the question with my own words, as I understand it: If you have an out-of-focus area in an image, can you determine if it is in front of or behind the actual focus plane?

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago




        4




        4





        @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

        – G_H
        2 days ago





        @jarnbjo I'm indeed not a native English speaker, but if the question is unclear it is more likely due to a lack of knowledge regarding the proper terms to phrase it in. Your interpretation is correct. Blur will result either from the convergence point of light rays being behind the film/sensor (subject between camera and focal plane) or being in front of it (subject further than focal plane). In the latter case the a point light source is blurred "inverted". This answer cleverly makes use of that due to the difference in refraction for different wavelengths.

        – G_H
        2 days ago













        19














        When the aperture is positioned to minimize vignetting, the bokeh shapes for objects that are too far is rotated by 180° compared with objects that are too near. (The aperture image is reflected through its center point.) If the arrangement of your aperture blades is not symmetric around the center point, you can try finding "reference bokeh" that are clearly nearer or farther than the focus plane to compare with highlights on the subject to see whether the bokeh shapes match those that are near or far.



        too neartoo far






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.
















        • 1





          Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

          – G_H
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago











        • I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

          – Ed Avis
          yesterday











        • @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

          – xiota
          yesterday













        • @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

          – xiota
          yesterday


















        19














        When the aperture is positioned to minimize vignetting, the bokeh shapes for objects that are too far is rotated by 180° compared with objects that are too near. (The aperture image is reflected through its center point.) If the arrangement of your aperture blades is not symmetric around the center point, you can try finding "reference bokeh" that are clearly nearer or farther than the focus plane to compare with highlights on the subject to see whether the bokeh shapes match those that are near or far.



        too neartoo far






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.
















        • 1





          Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

          – G_H
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago











        • I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

          – Ed Avis
          yesterday











        • @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

          – xiota
          yesterday













        • @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

          – xiota
          yesterday
















        19












        19








        19







        When the aperture is positioned to minimize vignetting, the bokeh shapes for objects that are too far is rotated by 180° compared with objects that are too near. (The aperture image is reflected through its center point.) If the arrangement of your aperture blades is not symmetric around the center point, you can try finding "reference bokeh" that are clearly nearer or farther than the focus plane to compare with highlights on the subject to see whether the bokeh shapes match those that are near or far.



        too neartoo far






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.










        When the aperture is positioned to minimize vignetting, the bokeh shapes for objects that are too far is rotated by 180° compared with objects that are too near. (The aperture image is reflected through its center point.) If the arrangement of your aperture blades is not symmetric around the center point, you can try finding "reference bokeh" that are clearly nearer or farther than the focus plane to compare with highlights on the subject to see whether the bokeh shapes match those that are near or far.



        too neartoo far







        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday









        xiota

        11k31860




        11k31860






        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.









        answered 2 days ago









        user82310user82310

        2214




        2214




        New contributor




        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.





        New contributor





        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.






        user82310 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.








        • 1





          Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

          – G_H
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago











        • I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

          – Ed Avis
          yesterday











        • @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

          – xiota
          yesterday













        • @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

          – xiota
          yesterday
















        • 1





          Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

          – G_H
          2 days ago






        • 2





          @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

          – jarnbjo
          2 days ago











        • I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

          – Ed Avis
          yesterday











        • @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

          – xiota
          yesterday













        • @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

          – xiota
          yesterday










        1




        1





        Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

        – G_H
        2 days ago





        Very clever! And independent of color or black and white.

        – G_H
        2 days ago




        2




        2





        @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago





        @G_H Yes, but remember that the edges of the aperture, and therefore also the edges of the shape of the boke, rotate as you adjust the aperture. You will either have to know the exact aperture setting, or have other reference points in the same image to compare with.

        – jarnbjo
        2 days ago













        I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

        – Ed Avis
        yesterday





        I wonder whether there's a camera which uses such an odd-shaped aperture to do autofocus?

        – Ed Avis
        yesterday













        @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

        – xiota
        yesterday







        @jarnbjo - Knowing exact aperture setting on lens not needed because method involves using "reference bokeh" within the same image.

        – xiota
        yesterday















        @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

        – xiota
        yesterday







        @EdAvis - Unlikely any camera uses orientation of bokeh to focus because – The camera would have to hunt for bokeh. The lens would have to be pretty far out of focus for shapes to be discernible. (How many pixels to show the points of a heptagon vs simple contrast.) Many lenses have an even number of aperture blades. The aperture rotates, as jarnbjo notes.

        – xiota
        yesterday













        5














        My answer only deals with "human" ways in differentiation - that is: No software, only your eyes and hands.



        If I have no reference (as in: you blind me, you set the focus distance, and then I can only look through the viewfinder, but cannot change a thing), the answer is: it depends on what I can see.



        Take, for example, an alley of trees: one in front, one where the subject stands, and one in the distance. When I see that the subject is not sharp, I can try to tell whether the tree in the foreground or the one in the background is more in focus.



        If I have no reference - e.g., as Yaba mentioned, when taking a photo of a aeroplane with blue sky in the background and no foreground, then I have no way to know exactly (my guess would be that focus is too close, however, as planes tend to be somewhere near infinity).





        The easiest way to find out usually is to slightly change the focus and see where it is (again, this works better with a reference than without).



        But generally speaking, there is no sure way to differentiate - too short a focus distance does not lead to (significantly) different blur compared to a focus distance that is too long.






        share|improve this answer




























          5














          My answer only deals with "human" ways in differentiation - that is: No software, only your eyes and hands.



          If I have no reference (as in: you blind me, you set the focus distance, and then I can only look through the viewfinder, but cannot change a thing), the answer is: it depends on what I can see.



          Take, for example, an alley of trees: one in front, one where the subject stands, and one in the distance. When I see that the subject is not sharp, I can try to tell whether the tree in the foreground or the one in the background is more in focus.



          If I have no reference - e.g., as Yaba mentioned, when taking a photo of a aeroplane with blue sky in the background and no foreground, then I have no way to know exactly (my guess would be that focus is too close, however, as planes tend to be somewhere near infinity).





          The easiest way to find out usually is to slightly change the focus and see where it is (again, this works better with a reference than without).



          But generally speaking, there is no sure way to differentiate - too short a focus distance does not lead to (significantly) different blur compared to a focus distance that is too long.






          share|improve this answer


























            5












            5








            5







            My answer only deals with "human" ways in differentiation - that is: No software, only your eyes and hands.



            If I have no reference (as in: you blind me, you set the focus distance, and then I can only look through the viewfinder, but cannot change a thing), the answer is: it depends on what I can see.



            Take, for example, an alley of trees: one in front, one where the subject stands, and one in the distance. When I see that the subject is not sharp, I can try to tell whether the tree in the foreground or the one in the background is more in focus.



            If I have no reference - e.g., as Yaba mentioned, when taking a photo of a aeroplane with blue sky in the background and no foreground, then I have no way to know exactly (my guess would be that focus is too close, however, as planes tend to be somewhere near infinity).





            The easiest way to find out usually is to slightly change the focus and see where it is (again, this works better with a reference than without).



            But generally speaking, there is no sure way to differentiate - too short a focus distance does not lead to (significantly) different blur compared to a focus distance that is too long.






            share|improve this answer













            My answer only deals with "human" ways in differentiation - that is: No software, only your eyes and hands.



            If I have no reference (as in: you blind me, you set the focus distance, and then I can only look through the viewfinder, but cannot change a thing), the answer is: it depends on what I can see.



            Take, for example, an alley of trees: one in front, one where the subject stands, and one in the distance. When I see that the subject is not sharp, I can try to tell whether the tree in the foreground or the one in the background is more in focus.



            If I have no reference - e.g., as Yaba mentioned, when taking a photo of a aeroplane with blue sky in the background and no foreground, then I have no way to know exactly (my guess would be that focus is too close, however, as planes tend to be somewhere near infinity).





            The easiest way to find out usually is to slightly change the focus and see where it is (again, this works better with a reference than without).



            But generally speaking, there is no sure way to differentiate - too short a focus distance does not lead to (significantly) different blur compared to a focus distance that is too long.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Feb 26 at 15:00









            floliloliloflolilolilo

            4,58611633




            4,58611633























                5














                If the plane is too far or to close is just from the blur hard to say. the easiest way is to have objects in front and behind and see which one is sharp and so you could determine if it is too far or too close... this is the same way as it is done by calibrating the autofocus of a lens with a lenscal tool like this.



                without such objects its hard to tell it.






                share|improve this answer




























                  5














                  If the plane is too far or to close is just from the blur hard to say. the easiest way is to have objects in front and behind and see which one is sharp and so you could determine if it is too far or too close... this is the same way as it is done by calibrating the autofocus of a lens with a lenscal tool like this.



                  without such objects its hard to tell it.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    5












                    5








                    5







                    If the plane is too far or to close is just from the blur hard to say. the easiest way is to have objects in front and behind and see which one is sharp and so you could determine if it is too far or too close... this is the same way as it is done by calibrating the autofocus of a lens with a lenscal tool like this.



                    without such objects its hard to tell it.






                    share|improve this answer













                    If the plane is too far or to close is just from the blur hard to say. the easiest way is to have objects in front and behind and see which one is sharp and so you could determine if it is too far or too close... this is the same way as it is done by calibrating the autofocus of a lens with a lenscal tool like this.



                    without such objects its hard to tell it.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Feb 26 at 15:04









                    LuZelLuZel

                    532318




                    532318























                        1














                        No



                        it is technically not possible to detect from the blur alone how far or in which direction the image is out of focus.



                        This is the reason why contrast-detection autofocus systems have to "hunt" for focus by repeatedly changing the focus distance and checking whether the image got better or worse.



                        In contrast, phase-detection AF systems know (theoretically) exactly how far and in which direction they have to change focus to achieve optimal sharpness.



                        Of course the image changes if you take context clues from other objects in the picture into account (i.e. "guessing"), but that is something which currently ony organic viewers can do. This might change with AI algorithms in-camera, but i suspect other advances will improve on pure CD-AF before that. (see @szulat 's link from acomment:https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM)






                        share|improve this answer



















                        • 5





                          In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                          – rackandboneman
                          2 days ago






                        • 1





                          So, actually, yes?

                          – Eric Duminil
                          2 days ago






                        • 3





                          @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                          – jarnbjo
                          2 days ago













                        • the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                          – ths
                          yesterday






                        • 2





                          @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                          – Peter Cordes
                          yesterday


















                        1














                        No



                        it is technically not possible to detect from the blur alone how far or in which direction the image is out of focus.



                        This is the reason why contrast-detection autofocus systems have to "hunt" for focus by repeatedly changing the focus distance and checking whether the image got better or worse.



                        In contrast, phase-detection AF systems know (theoretically) exactly how far and in which direction they have to change focus to achieve optimal sharpness.



                        Of course the image changes if you take context clues from other objects in the picture into account (i.e. "guessing"), but that is something which currently ony organic viewers can do. This might change with AI algorithms in-camera, but i suspect other advances will improve on pure CD-AF before that. (see @szulat 's link from acomment:https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM)






                        share|improve this answer



















                        • 5





                          In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                          – rackandboneman
                          2 days ago






                        • 1





                          So, actually, yes?

                          – Eric Duminil
                          2 days ago






                        • 3





                          @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                          – jarnbjo
                          2 days ago













                        • the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                          – ths
                          yesterday






                        • 2





                          @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                          – Peter Cordes
                          yesterday
















                        1












                        1








                        1







                        No



                        it is technically not possible to detect from the blur alone how far or in which direction the image is out of focus.



                        This is the reason why contrast-detection autofocus systems have to "hunt" for focus by repeatedly changing the focus distance and checking whether the image got better or worse.



                        In contrast, phase-detection AF systems know (theoretically) exactly how far and in which direction they have to change focus to achieve optimal sharpness.



                        Of course the image changes if you take context clues from other objects in the picture into account (i.e. "guessing"), but that is something which currently ony organic viewers can do. This might change with AI algorithms in-camera, but i suspect other advances will improve on pure CD-AF before that. (see @szulat 's link from acomment:https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM)






                        share|improve this answer













                        No



                        it is technically not possible to detect from the blur alone how far or in which direction the image is out of focus.



                        This is the reason why contrast-detection autofocus systems have to "hunt" for focus by repeatedly changing the focus distance and checking whether the image got better or worse.



                        In contrast, phase-detection AF systems know (theoretically) exactly how far and in which direction they have to change focus to achieve optimal sharpness.



                        Of course the image changes if you take context clues from other objects in the picture into account (i.e. "guessing"), but that is something which currently ony organic viewers can do. This might change with AI algorithms in-camera, but i suspect other advances will improve on pure CD-AF before that. (see @szulat 's link from acomment:https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-gh4/panasonic-gh4TECH.HTM)







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered Feb 26 at 16:03









                        thsths

                        5,3581620




                        5,3581620








                        • 5





                          In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                          – rackandboneman
                          2 days ago






                        • 1





                          So, actually, yes?

                          – Eric Duminil
                          2 days ago






                        • 3





                          @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                          – jarnbjo
                          2 days ago













                        • the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                          – ths
                          yesterday






                        • 2





                          @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                          – Peter Cordes
                          yesterday
















                        • 5





                          In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                          – rackandboneman
                          2 days ago






                        • 1





                          So, actually, yes?

                          – Eric Duminil
                          2 days ago






                        • 3





                          @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                          – jarnbjo
                          2 days ago













                        • the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                          – ths
                          yesterday






                        • 2





                          @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                          – Peter Cordes
                          yesterday










                        5




                        5





                        In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                        – rackandboneman
                        2 days ago





                        In certain cases, software could determine this from other artifacts/aberrations that are a result of being out of focus - eg spherochromatism....

                        – rackandboneman
                        2 days ago




                        1




                        1





                        So, actually, yes?

                        – Eric Duminil
                        2 days ago





                        So, actually, yes?

                        – Eric Duminil
                        2 days ago




                        3




                        3





                        @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                        – jarnbjo
                        2 days ago







                        @EricDuminil Yes. This answer is simply wrong. An answer is not necessarily more correct, just because the text is in bold, large letters.

                        – jarnbjo
                        2 days ago















                        the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                        – ths
                        yesterday





                        the question that was asked when i was answeing it was :"can you detect from blur whether it was back-focus or front-focus?" from blur. so not from any other effects. please prove me wrong.

                        – ths
                        yesterday




                        2




                        2





                        @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                        – Peter Cordes
                        yesterday







                        @jarnbjo: It's common practice (moreso on some stackexchange sites than others) to start an answer with a bolded TL:DR heading and then support the conclusion. I'm going to hope you're joking, because this looks like a legit attempt to give a good answer (not bolding for the sake of convincing anyone), but simply didn't think of some of the effects mentioned in the top 2 answers (yours and user82310) which let you gain information from the blurring itself, without phase information. +1 this answer because the point about phase-detection AF is interesting.

                        – Peter Cordes
                        yesterday













                        1














                        Yes, if the content includes edges at different distances.



                        If you can tell that a further object is more blurred than a nearer one, then it's further from the plane of focus. That means that the focus is too short.



                        Conversely, if the distant objects are less blurred than those in the foreground, the focus is too long.






                        share|improve this answer




























                          1














                          Yes, if the content includes edges at different distances.



                          If you can tell that a further object is more blurred than a nearer one, then it's further from the plane of focus. That means that the focus is too short.



                          Conversely, if the distant objects are less blurred than those in the foreground, the focus is too long.






                          share|improve this answer


























                            1












                            1








                            1







                            Yes, if the content includes edges at different distances.



                            If you can tell that a further object is more blurred than a nearer one, then it's further from the plane of focus. That means that the focus is too short.



                            Conversely, if the distant objects are less blurred than those in the foreground, the focus is too long.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Yes, if the content includes edges at different distances.



                            If you can tell that a further object is more blurred than a nearer one, then it's further from the plane of focus. That means that the focus is too short.



                            Conversely, if the distant objects are less blurred than those in the foreground, the focus is too long.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 2 days ago









                            Toby SpeightToby Speight

                            322213




                            322213























                                0














                                With a plane in the sky it gets hard. Unlike other objects at different distances available (birds, blouds,…) you cannot compare it easily visually.



                                Some lens/camera combinations can track the focus distance and will write it into the EXIF. However this is not very reliable, but could give you a hint. When you know the plane type and therefore can look up its real size you can calculate its approximate distance and compare this to the focus distance.



                                This page with its calculator can help you with this: https://www.scantips.com/lights/subjectdistance.html






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 6





                                  Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                  – Tetsujin
                                  Feb 26 at 10:44











                                • Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                  – Yaba
                                  Feb 26 at 11:18






                                • 8





                                  @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 11:27






                                • 1





                                  @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 13:43











                                • OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                  – Yaba
                                  2 days ago
















                                0














                                With a plane in the sky it gets hard. Unlike other objects at different distances available (birds, blouds,…) you cannot compare it easily visually.



                                Some lens/camera combinations can track the focus distance and will write it into the EXIF. However this is not very reliable, but could give you a hint. When you know the plane type and therefore can look up its real size you can calculate its approximate distance and compare this to the focus distance.



                                This page with its calculator can help you with this: https://www.scantips.com/lights/subjectdistance.html






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 6





                                  Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                  – Tetsujin
                                  Feb 26 at 10:44











                                • Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                  – Yaba
                                  Feb 26 at 11:18






                                • 8





                                  @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 11:27






                                • 1





                                  @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 13:43











                                • OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                  – Yaba
                                  2 days ago














                                0












                                0








                                0







                                With a plane in the sky it gets hard. Unlike other objects at different distances available (birds, blouds,…) you cannot compare it easily visually.



                                Some lens/camera combinations can track the focus distance and will write it into the EXIF. However this is not very reliable, but could give you a hint. When you know the plane type and therefore can look up its real size you can calculate its approximate distance and compare this to the focus distance.



                                This page with its calculator can help you with this: https://www.scantips.com/lights/subjectdistance.html






                                share|improve this answer















                                With a plane in the sky it gets hard. Unlike other objects at different distances available (birds, blouds,…) you cannot compare it easily visually.



                                Some lens/camera combinations can track the focus distance and will write it into the EXIF. However this is not very reliable, but could give you a hint. When you know the plane type and therefore can look up its real size you can calculate its approximate distance and compare this to the focus distance.



                                This page with its calculator can help you with this: https://www.scantips.com/lights/subjectdistance.html







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday









                                inkista

                                40.8k558107




                                40.8k558107










                                answered Feb 26 at 10:24









                                YabaYaba

                                1374




                                1374








                                • 6





                                  Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                  – Tetsujin
                                  Feb 26 at 10:44











                                • Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                  – Yaba
                                  Feb 26 at 11:18






                                • 8





                                  @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 11:27






                                • 1





                                  @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 13:43











                                • OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                  – Yaba
                                  2 days ago














                                • 6





                                  Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                  – Tetsujin
                                  Feb 26 at 10:44











                                • Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                  – Yaba
                                  Feb 26 at 11:18






                                • 8





                                  @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 11:27






                                • 1





                                  @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                  – G_H
                                  Feb 26 at 13:43











                                • OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                  – Yaba
                                  2 days ago








                                6




                                6





                                Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                – Tetsujin
                                Feb 26 at 10:44





                                Geometric plane not Aeroplane

                                – Tetsujin
                                Feb 26 at 10:44













                                Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                – Yaba
                                Feb 26 at 11:18





                                Well, then the question was not clear. In this case it's easy. Look for other elements either in the front or behind that are in focus. However if it that's what has been asked I wonder why it was asked as this is obvious, isn't it?

                                – Yaba
                                Feb 26 at 11:18




                                8




                                8





                                @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                – G_H
                                Feb 26 at 11:27





                                @Yaba "a plane that is too much in front of your subject". I think if an aeroplane is too close in front of what you're trying to shoot and in a state of movement that makes it hard to focus on, you have more urgent issues than getting a good photo.

                                – G_H
                                Feb 26 at 11:27




                                1




                                1





                                @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                – G_H
                                Feb 26 at 13:43





                                @Yaba The question is if there are aspects to the blurred part of an image that can tell you if it's a result of back-focus or front-focus. You may not have anything in front or back of the subject to tell. Back-focusing would put the intended image "behind" the film/sensor plane, front focusing in front of it. Meaning front-focusing also inverts it. I thought this might affect the appearance of the blur in some noticeable way. I'm asking out of interest.

                                – G_H
                                Feb 26 at 13:43













                                OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                – Yaba
                                2 days ago





                                OK, understood. However still what I wrote applies. As long as you know the actual size of the subject you can calculate it's real distance (in case you do not know it) and compare it to the EXIF focal distance data to get a hint.

                                – Yaba
                                2 days ago


















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