Why exactly do action photographers need high fps burst cameras?Is the Nikon 300mm f/4 a good lens for Nikon...
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Why exactly do action photographers need high fps burst cameras?
Is the Nikon 300mm f/4 a good lens for Nikon D7000 for shooting sports & wildlife?What are the advantages of shooting in burst (continuous) mode?Why do cameras have so little buffer?Why shot-to-shot time is much slower than the max FPS in burst mode?Lower quality photos in burst modeWhy does ISO sensitivity affect sequential burst mode duration?What settings should I use to take a burst at the highest possible FPS?Why does the mirror open and close for every photo in burst mode?Why are my football action shots blurry?What determines a cameras max FPS for still images?
I've heard that sports and wildlife photographers need cameras that can take lots of photos in a second in the burst mode.
But why? Yes, simple question — but why?
camera-basics sports wildlife burst-mode
|
show 3 more comments
I've heard that sports and wildlife photographers need cameras that can take lots of photos in a second in the burst mode.
But why? Yes, simple question — but why?
camera-basics sports wildlife burst-mode
6
Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
2
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
1
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
1
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
I've heard that sports and wildlife photographers need cameras that can take lots of photos in a second in the burst mode.
But why? Yes, simple question — but why?
camera-basics sports wildlife burst-mode
I've heard that sports and wildlife photographers need cameras that can take lots of photos in a second in the burst mode.
But why? Yes, simple question — but why?
camera-basics sports wildlife burst-mode
camera-basics sports wildlife burst-mode
edited 2 days ago
mattdm
121k40356647
121k40356647
asked 2 days ago
Jonathan IronsJonathan Irons
527414
527414
6
Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
2
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
1
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
1
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
6
Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
2
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
1
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
1
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago
6
6
Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
2
2
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
1
1
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
1
1
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Strictly speaking, one does not need high FPS burst modes for sports or wildlife, but rather they are useful tools that open up more options.
I've shot sports in the last few years with a Canon 7D, typically using 5-8 frame bursts (at I think 8fps) at a time, and I've also used a medium format manual focus camera.
Both methods have produced great images, but with a burst of photos I walk away with a number of images I can choose from that best represent the moment. (ie, picking between two nearly identical photos, one where a player is halfway through blinking, or one where they're not...)
When I have only a single frame to pick from, that's it. That's the one frame, and either it worked well, or it gets tossed to the bin, because there were no other options to pick from.
Burst mode, with a large frame buffer, can also help settle some minor motion blur - It isn't unusual for the first image or two of a burst to have a hint more blur than the rest from pressing the shutter button (and parts in the camera starting to move in an SLR) but the following images are balanced out.
For me I find this especially useful during panning shots - Begin following the target, anticipate the action you want to capture that is about to happen, begin a burst, and follow through across your goal image.
When shooting sports and wildlife you don't really have the luxury to stop and say "Lets try that one again" if you don't feel you nailed the image you were after.
Options then to be good.
You can always take a single frame on a modern camera that can do 10+ fps. It is 'kind of hard' to take 10fps if you have a camera that only does less than 1.
(As a side note, also remember to consider buffer size and clear times. A camera that can take 10fps won't do you much good if you frequently find yourself tapping the shutter button and hearing it beep at you that it is still clearing its buffer and can't take a photo right then.)
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Because
- there is a lot happening in a short timeframe (movement phases of a fast animal or athlete), and you want to photograph it all
and/or
- the exact timing of the relevant event cannot be predicted, so covering as many possible times where that event could happen (and discarding the rest later) is necessary
and/or
- redundant pictures are needed because there are factors at play that could jeopardize a single shot (eg the other guys speedlites, shooting at unsafe shutter speeds due to insufficient lighting, unwanted highly mobile composition hazards (birds, insects, flying trash), banding-prone image displays that you need in the picture, light dimming schemes that can occasionally set you up for a surprise black frame).
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
In addition to all the correct answers about how fast action occurs, I'd like to point out two fundamental biological reasons for why you need burst:
- 100ms. This is the fastest we can react to a stimulus. Olympic sprinters start to contract their muscles 100ms after the starter's gun goes off. Any event which occurs faster than this cannot be captured by simply waiting for the event to occur and pressing the shutter. In user interfaces, this is sometimes also called a "moment." If a user acts on a UI (such as clicking) and the response is created in less than 100ms, we perceive the response as "instantaneous."
- 300ms. If a "novel stimulus" occurs (such as the event you were looking for), it takes 300ms to reach conscious thought. There's a related brain wave called P300 which researchers use to determine if a test subject has actually consciously registered an event. If you aren't an Olympic level photographer, and you have to think about whether you want to take a picture or not, 300ms is as fast as you can do it. Any faster response must be subconscious, which typically calls for training the response you want to see.
If you get into slow motion, the effect is even more extreme. If you've seen the shark episode of Planet Earth, you've seen some of the extraordinary footage they capture. They don't actually have a shutter button. They turn the camera on and it starts rolling with a 2 second long FIFO buffer, meaning the camera always remembers what happens in the last two seconds. After an event happens, they would press a trigger to latch the buffer, remembering those last 2 seconds until they got the chance to download it on the boat. So I would call that the ultimate spray and pray -- they continuously take pictures until something happens, then tell the camera to bother keeping the last few!
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
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Strictly speaking, one does not need high FPS burst modes for sports or wildlife, but rather they are useful tools that open up more options.
I've shot sports in the last few years with a Canon 7D, typically using 5-8 frame bursts (at I think 8fps) at a time, and I've also used a medium format manual focus camera.
Both methods have produced great images, but with a burst of photos I walk away with a number of images I can choose from that best represent the moment. (ie, picking between two nearly identical photos, one where a player is halfway through blinking, or one where they're not...)
When I have only a single frame to pick from, that's it. That's the one frame, and either it worked well, or it gets tossed to the bin, because there were no other options to pick from.
Burst mode, with a large frame buffer, can also help settle some minor motion blur - It isn't unusual for the first image or two of a burst to have a hint more blur than the rest from pressing the shutter button (and parts in the camera starting to move in an SLR) but the following images are balanced out.
For me I find this especially useful during panning shots - Begin following the target, anticipate the action you want to capture that is about to happen, begin a burst, and follow through across your goal image.
When shooting sports and wildlife you don't really have the luxury to stop and say "Lets try that one again" if you don't feel you nailed the image you were after.
Options then to be good.
You can always take a single frame on a modern camera that can do 10+ fps. It is 'kind of hard' to take 10fps if you have a camera that only does less than 1.
(As a side note, also remember to consider buffer size and clear times. A camera that can take 10fps won't do you much good if you frequently find yourself tapping the shutter button and hearing it beep at you that it is still clearing its buffer and can't take a photo right then.)
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Strictly speaking, one does not need high FPS burst modes for sports or wildlife, but rather they are useful tools that open up more options.
I've shot sports in the last few years with a Canon 7D, typically using 5-8 frame bursts (at I think 8fps) at a time, and I've also used a medium format manual focus camera.
Both methods have produced great images, but with a burst of photos I walk away with a number of images I can choose from that best represent the moment. (ie, picking between two nearly identical photos, one where a player is halfway through blinking, or one where they're not...)
When I have only a single frame to pick from, that's it. That's the one frame, and either it worked well, or it gets tossed to the bin, because there were no other options to pick from.
Burst mode, with a large frame buffer, can also help settle some minor motion blur - It isn't unusual for the first image or two of a burst to have a hint more blur than the rest from pressing the shutter button (and parts in the camera starting to move in an SLR) but the following images are balanced out.
For me I find this especially useful during panning shots - Begin following the target, anticipate the action you want to capture that is about to happen, begin a burst, and follow through across your goal image.
When shooting sports and wildlife you don't really have the luxury to stop and say "Lets try that one again" if you don't feel you nailed the image you were after.
Options then to be good.
You can always take a single frame on a modern camera that can do 10+ fps. It is 'kind of hard' to take 10fps if you have a camera that only does less than 1.
(As a side note, also remember to consider buffer size and clear times. A camera that can take 10fps won't do you much good if you frequently find yourself tapping the shutter button and hearing it beep at you that it is still clearing its buffer and can't take a photo right then.)
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Strictly speaking, one does not need high FPS burst modes for sports or wildlife, but rather they are useful tools that open up more options.
I've shot sports in the last few years with a Canon 7D, typically using 5-8 frame bursts (at I think 8fps) at a time, and I've also used a medium format manual focus camera.
Both methods have produced great images, but with a burst of photos I walk away with a number of images I can choose from that best represent the moment. (ie, picking between two nearly identical photos, one where a player is halfway through blinking, or one where they're not...)
When I have only a single frame to pick from, that's it. That's the one frame, and either it worked well, or it gets tossed to the bin, because there were no other options to pick from.
Burst mode, with a large frame buffer, can also help settle some minor motion blur - It isn't unusual for the first image or two of a burst to have a hint more blur than the rest from pressing the shutter button (and parts in the camera starting to move in an SLR) but the following images are balanced out.
For me I find this especially useful during panning shots - Begin following the target, anticipate the action you want to capture that is about to happen, begin a burst, and follow through across your goal image.
When shooting sports and wildlife you don't really have the luxury to stop and say "Lets try that one again" if you don't feel you nailed the image you were after.
Options then to be good.
You can always take a single frame on a modern camera that can do 10+ fps. It is 'kind of hard' to take 10fps if you have a camera that only does less than 1.
(As a side note, also remember to consider buffer size and clear times. A camera that can take 10fps won't do you much good if you frequently find yourself tapping the shutter button and hearing it beep at you that it is still clearing its buffer and can't take a photo right then.)
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Strictly speaking, one does not need high FPS burst modes for sports or wildlife, but rather they are useful tools that open up more options.
I've shot sports in the last few years with a Canon 7D, typically using 5-8 frame bursts (at I think 8fps) at a time, and I've also used a medium format manual focus camera.
Both methods have produced great images, but with a burst of photos I walk away with a number of images I can choose from that best represent the moment. (ie, picking between two nearly identical photos, one where a player is halfway through blinking, or one where they're not...)
When I have only a single frame to pick from, that's it. That's the one frame, and either it worked well, or it gets tossed to the bin, because there were no other options to pick from.
Burst mode, with a large frame buffer, can also help settle some minor motion blur - It isn't unusual for the first image or two of a burst to have a hint more blur than the rest from pressing the shutter button (and parts in the camera starting to move in an SLR) but the following images are balanced out.
For me I find this especially useful during panning shots - Begin following the target, anticipate the action you want to capture that is about to happen, begin a burst, and follow through across your goal image.
When shooting sports and wildlife you don't really have the luxury to stop and say "Lets try that one again" if you don't feel you nailed the image you were after.
Options then to be good.
You can always take a single frame on a modern camera that can do 10+ fps. It is 'kind of hard' to take 10fps if you have a camera that only does less than 1.
(As a side note, also remember to consider buffer size and clear times. A camera that can take 10fps won't do you much good if you frequently find yourself tapping the shutter button and hearing it beep at you that it is still clearing its buffer and can't take a photo right then.)
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 days ago
TheLucklessTheLuckless
44413
44413
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TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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TheLuckless is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
add a comment |
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
It's also useful for confetti shots at weddings, and any kind of action show (e.g. subject jumping, dog running towards you). You can also use it with a fixed focus and the subject moving into focus, e.g. a dog running towards you, set focus in front of the dog, and let it run into focus. This can in some situations work better than AI focus.
– Dan W
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Because
- there is a lot happening in a short timeframe (movement phases of a fast animal or athlete), and you want to photograph it all
and/or
- the exact timing of the relevant event cannot be predicted, so covering as many possible times where that event could happen (and discarding the rest later) is necessary
and/or
- redundant pictures are needed because there are factors at play that could jeopardize a single shot (eg the other guys speedlites, shooting at unsafe shutter speeds due to insufficient lighting, unwanted highly mobile composition hazards (birds, insects, flying trash), banding-prone image displays that you need in the picture, light dimming schemes that can occasionally set you up for a surprise black frame).
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
Because
- there is a lot happening in a short timeframe (movement phases of a fast animal or athlete), and you want to photograph it all
and/or
- the exact timing of the relevant event cannot be predicted, so covering as many possible times where that event could happen (and discarding the rest later) is necessary
and/or
- redundant pictures are needed because there are factors at play that could jeopardize a single shot (eg the other guys speedlites, shooting at unsafe shutter speeds due to insufficient lighting, unwanted highly mobile composition hazards (birds, insects, flying trash), banding-prone image displays that you need in the picture, light dimming schemes that can occasionally set you up for a surprise black frame).
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
Because
- there is a lot happening in a short timeframe (movement phases of a fast animal or athlete), and you want to photograph it all
and/or
- the exact timing of the relevant event cannot be predicted, so covering as many possible times where that event could happen (and discarding the rest later) is necessary
and/or
- redundant pictures are needed because there are factors at play that could jeopardize a single shot (eg the other guys speedlites, shooting at unsafe shutter speeds due to insufficient lighting, unwanted highly mobile composition hazards (birds, insects, flying trash), banding-prone image displays that you need in the picture, light dimming schemes that can occasionally set you up for a surprise black frame).
Because
- there is a lot happening in a short timeframe (movement phases of a fast animal or athlete), and you want to photograph it all
and/or
- the exact timing of the relevant event cannot be predicted, so covering as many possible times where that event could happen (and discarding the rest later) is necessary
and/or
- redundant pictures are needed because there are factors at play that could jeopardize a single shot (eg the other guys speedlites, shooting at unsafe shutter speeds due to insufficient lighting, unwanted highly mobile composition hazards (birds, insects, flying trash), banding-prone image displays that you need in the picture, light dimming schemes that can occasionally set you up for a surprise black frame).
edited 2 days ago
mattdm
121k40356647
121k40356647
answered 2 days ago
rackandbonemanrackandboneman
2,756817
2,756817
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
18
18
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
TL;DR: sports/wildlife photographers do not have fast enough reaction time to really shoot the image as needed. Instead they start shooting in burst mode when they think something worth shooting happens in the near future and hope for the best.
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
2
2
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen I don't know if I'd agree with that. Consider American football...you see the throw, you frame the receiver, and right when the ball is about to be caught, you shoot going for that money shot. You continue to shoot because you know that the receiver may get slammed and you don't have time to spare. You got the whole thing because of instinct. IMO, spray and pray is hardly a strategy.
– Hueco
2 days ago
6
6
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@Hueco: I agree that pro photographer shooting the moment the ball touches the receiver's hand is about skill. However, the burst mode is still needed because reaction time is not enough for the remaining part (e.g. receiver gets slammed) and then you just keep shooting in the burst mode and hope to capture the moment if that happens...
– Mikko Rantalainen
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
@MikkoRantalainen That's pretty much what I said. Your initial comment felt a bit too spray and pray to me - but, I think we're on the same page.
– Hueco
2 days ago
3
3
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
If it is about uncontrollable image-foulers (foreign flash) or unsafe shutter speeds needed, spray and pray hard is indeed better ....
– rackandboneman
2 days ago
|
show 5 more comments
In addition to all the correct answers about how fast action occurs, I'd like to point out two fundamental biological reasons for why you need burst:
- 100ms. This is the fastest we can react to a stimulus. Olympic sprinters start to contract their muscles 100ms after the starter's gun goes off. Any event which occurs faster than this cannot be captured by simply waiting for the event to occur and pressing the shutter. In user interfaces, this is sometimes also called a "moment." If a user acts on a UI (such as clicking) and the response is created in less than 100ms, we perceive the response as "instantaneous."
- 300ms. If a "novel stimulus" occurs (such as the event you were looking for), it takes 300ms to reach conscious thought. There's a related brain wave called P300 which researchers use to determine if a test subject has actually consciously registered an event. If you aren't an Olympic level photographer, and you have to think about whether you want to take a picture or not, 300ms is as fast as you can do it. Any faster response must be subconscious, which typically calls for training the response you want to see.
If you get into slow motion, the effect is even more extreme. If you've seen the shark episode of Planet Earth, you've seen some of the extraordinary footage they capture. They don't actually have a shutter button. They turn the camera on and it starts rolling with a 2 second long FIFO buffer, meaning the camera always remembers what happens in the last two seconds. After an event happens, they would press a trigger to latch the buffer, remembering those last 2 seconds until they got the chance to download it on the boat. So I would call that the ultimate spray and pray -- they continuously take pictures until something happens, then tell the camera to bother keeping the last few!
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
In addition to all the correct answers about how fast action occurs, I'd like to point out two fundamental biological reasons for why you need burst:
- 100ms. This is the fastest we can react to a stimulus. Olympic sprinters start to contract their muscles 100ms after the starter's gun goes off. Any event which occurs faster than this cannot be captured by simply waiting for the event to occur and pressing the shutter. In user interfaces, this is sometimes also called a "moment." If a user acts on a UI (such as clicking) and the response is created in less than 100ms, we perceive the response as "instantaneous."
- 300ms. If a "novel stimulus" occurs (such as the event you were looking for), it takes 300ms to reach conscious thought. There's a related brain wave called P300 which researchers use to determine if a test subject has actually consciously registered an event. If you aren't an Olympic level photographer, and you have to think about whether you want to take a picture or not, 300ms is as fast as you can do it. Any faster response must be subconscious, which typically calls for training the response you want to see.
If you get into slow motion, the effect is even more extreme. If you've seen the shark episode of Planet Earth, you've seen some of the extraordinary footage they capture. They don't actually have a shutter button. They turn the camera on and it starts rolling with a 2 second long FIFO buffer, meaning the camera always remembers what happens in the last two seconds. After an event happens, they would press a trigger to latch the buffer, remembering those last 2 seconds until they got the chance to download it on the boat. So I would call that the ultimate spray and pray -- they continuously take pictures until something happens, then tell the camera to bother keeping the last few!
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
In addition to all the correct answers about how fast action occurs, I'd like to point out two fundamental biological reasons for why you need burst:
- 100ms. This is the fastest we can react to a stimulus. Olympic sprinters start to contract their muscles 100ms after the starter's gun goes off. Any event which occurs faster than this cannot be captured by simply waiting for the event to occur and pressing the shutter. In user interfaces, this is sometimes also called a "moment." If a user acts on a UI (such as clicking) and the response is created in less than 100ms, we perceive the response as "instantaneous."
- 300ms. If a "novel stimulus" occurs (such as the event you were looking for), it takes 300ms to reach conscious thought. There's a related brain wave called P300 which researchers use to determine if a test subject has actually consciously registered an event. If you aren't an Olympic level photographer, and you have to think about whether you want to take a picture or not, 300ms is as fast as you can do it. Any faster response must be subconscious, which typically calls for training the response you want to see.
If you get into slow motion, the effect is even more extreme. If you've seen the shark episode of Planet Earth, you've seen some of the extraordinary footage they capture. They don't actually have a shutter button. They turn the camera on and it starts rolling with a 2 second long FIFO buffer, meaning the camera always remembers what happens in the last two seconds. After an event happens, they would press a trigger to latch the buffer, remembering those last 2 seconds until they got the chance to download it on the boat. So I would call that the ultimate spray and pray -- they continuously take pictures until something happens, then tell the camera to bother keeping the last few!
In addition to all the correct answers about how fast action occurs, I'd like to point out two fundamental biological reasons for why you need burst:
- 100ms. This is the fastest we can react to a stimulus. Olympic sprinters start to contract their muscles 100ms after the starter's gun goes off. Any event which occurs faster than this cannot be captured by simply waiting for the event to occur and pressing the shutter. In user interfaces, this is sometimes also called a "moment." If a user acts on a UI (such as clicking) and the response is created in less than 100ms, we perceive the response as "instantaneous."
- 300ms. If a "novel stimulus" occurs (such as the event you were looking for), it takes 300ms to reach conscious thought. There's a related brain wave called P300 which researchers use to determine if a test subject has actually consciously registered an event. If you aren't an Olympic level photographer, and you have to think about whether you want to take a picture or not, 300ms is as fast as you can do it. Any faster response must be subconscious, which typically calls for training the response you want to see.
If you get into slow motion, the effect is even more extreme. If you've seen the shark episode of Planet Earth, you've seen some of the extraordinary footage they capture. They don't actually have a shutter button. They turn the camera on and it starts rolling with a 2 second long FIFO buffer, meaning the camera always remembers what happens in the last two seconds. After an event happens, they would press a trigger to latch the buffer, remembering those last 2 seconds until they got the chance to download it on the boat. So I would call that the ultimate spray and pray -- they continuously take pictures until something happens, then tell the camera to bother keeping the last few!
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Cort AmmonCort Ammon
72947
72947
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
3
3
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
@LoganPickup I see where I misinterpreted, and have edited it. It wasn't just any 2 events, it was an action and a response. If you are responsible for the action (first event), a response in 100ms is "instantaneous." And really what I wanted to capture with the whole answer is that, fundamentally, there's biological reasons you can't just snap the picture when you see it.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
1
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
The difference between burst and buffered cameras is really just how much before the event you can start your camera working. In a buffered camera, you start it arbitrarily early. With burst, you're limited by how many pictures you want to take and any camera bandwidth limits that may arise, so you have to start taking pictures closer to the moment that matters.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
1
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
@CortAmmon I agree what you wrote except that if I trigger an event and the response happens within 100ms it won't feel instantaneous. For example, imagine a computer which has lag of 90ms between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on the screen. That would be terrible user experience. However, if you whitness a trigger event (e.g. camera flash) and within 100ms something else happens which you consider as a reaction, the reaction will appear as instantaneous. It's all about whether I know what should happen if I do something.
– Mikko Rantalainen
yesterday
1
1
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
@MikkoRantalainen True. These are actual neurological limits, but the brain is infamous for hiding them from our view (which is why they are so interesting). We feel that we interact with the world in a more continuous way than we really do because our brain processes in a way that hides it. If you know the result of something, you'll get ahead of it and start predicting as-if it occurred. This effect is most easily noted when you are surprised that something doesn't happen. That means you predicted ahead what would happen, and in reality it did something else.
– Cort Ammon
yesterday
1
1
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
@LoganPickup stream/buffered/burst photography is really all part of the same concept, the only difference is the how and when of file writing - Neither method will net you any useful images if you haven't pointed the camera at the right thing or readied it to record at the right times. One assumes the majority of data will be tossed, so tosses it by default and only saves on manual command after the fact, the other assumes all data is to be saved and only deleted by manual action after the fact.
– TheLuckless
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
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Did you mean to accept an answer so soon?
– JPhi1618
2 days ago
@JPhi1618 first come first served! Free Market ! If you can complain I guess you can write an answer too.
– Jonathan Irons
yesterday
2
I don’t know what any of that means. Just thought it was odd that you accepted a brand new answer 10 minutes after it was posted rather than a good, hours old post with 20+ votes.
– JPhi1618
yesterday
1
Accepting an answer too quickly is indeed an antipattern. Please give a day or two for answers to accumulate before accepting.
– Reid
22 hours ago
1
The purpose of accepting answers is to mark that you are satisfied; accept based on answer quality, not seniority. Further, once an answer is accepted, it discourages others from answering, lowering the total quality of the question.
– Reid
5 hours ago