Citing paywalled articles accessed via illegal web sharingAre academic ethics global or local?How to publish...

What makes the Forgotten Realms "forgotten"?

How to acknowledge an embarrassing job interview, now that I work directly with the interviewer?

How should I handle players who ignore the session zero agreement?

Where are a monster’s hit dice found in the stat block?

Explain the objections to these measures against human trafficking

Can an insurance company drop you after receiving a bill and refusing to pay?

Is it a fallacy if someone claims they need an explanation for every word of your argument to the point where they don't understand common terms?

Jumping Numbers

Checking for the existence of multiple directories

Why do neural networks need so many training examples to perform?

Why did other German political parties disband so fast when Hitler was appointed chancellor?

What is a jet (unit) shown in Windows 10 calculator?

What is the in-universe cost of a TIE fighter?

Should I write a companion book/blog?

What is better: yes / no radio, or simple checkbox?

Do authors have to be politically correct in article-writing?

Lick explanation

Does Windows 10's telemetry include sending *.doc files if Word crashed?

Isn't using the Extrusion Multiplier like cheating?

How to tag distinct options/entities without giving any an implicit priority or suggested order?

Program that converts a number to a letter of the alphabet

Why Smart Plugs don't require setting port forwarding on router and how to accomplish this with NodeMCU (ESP8266)

A starship is travelling at 0.9c and collides with a small rock. Will it leave a clean hole through, or will more happen?

We are very unlucky in my court



Citing paywalled articles accessed via illegal web sharing


Are academic ethics global or local?How to publish an academic book but make the PDF freely available online?How to make your paper's materials available online? (personal webpages, Institutional server, etc?)What makes you keep on reading articles in your non-English native language, while the same information might be published in English?Display of Publications for Personal WebsiteHow Scopus CSAB plan to evaluate a submitted journal's citedness in Scopus?Does a bibliography-only citation count like a regular citation for the author?How does LibGen/SciHub affect researchers' research and publishing process?Uncited general claims followed by cited specific claims – is this an accepted writing style?How to handle an obsession about being 100% academically honestHow to find references for known facts?













73















There are a few sites which offer paid articles for free. It’s something unethical, especially for those who upload to that site, but for me, it’s good for expanding knowledge.



As a readers, can we cite those documents, and can the editorial board know that I’m using those articles?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 19





    This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

    – Robert Columbia
    Feb 26 at 18:04








  • 10





    That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

    – Dan Fox
    Feb 26 at 20:26






  • 58





    Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

    – tomasz
    Feb 26 at 22:34






  • 14





    @tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

    – vsz
    2 days ago






  • 8





    @DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

    – Acccumulation
    2 days ago
















73















There are a few sites which offer paid articles for free. It’s something unethical, especially for those who upload to that site, but for me, it’s good for expanding knowledge.



As a readers, can we cite those documents, and can the editorial board know that I’m using those articles?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 19





    This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

    – Robert Columbia
    Feb 26 at 18:04








  • 10





    That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

    – Dan Fox
    Feb 26 at 20:26






  • 58





    Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

    – tomasz
    Feb 26 at 22:34






  • 14





    @tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

    – vsz
    2 days ago






  • 8





    @DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

    – Acccumulation
    2 days ago














73












73








73


11






There are a few sites which offer paid articles for free. It’s something unethical, especially for those who upload to that site, but for me, it’s good for expanding knowledge.



As a readers, can we cite those documents, and can the editorial board know that I’m using those articles?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












There are a few sites which offer paid articles for free. It’s something unethical, especially for those who upload to that site, but for me, it’s good for expanding knowledge.



As a readers, can we cite those documents, and can the editorial board know that I’m using those articles?







publications citations ethics






share|improve this question









New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago







Syafiq Zaidi













New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Feb 26 at 9:42









Syafiq ZaidiSyafiq Zaidi

375129




375129




New contributor




Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Syafiq Zaidi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 19





    This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

    – Robert Columbia
    Feb 26 at 18:04








  • 10





    That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

    – Dan Fox
    Feb 26 at 20:26






  • 58





    Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

    – tomasz
    Feb 26 at 22:34






  • 14





    @tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

    – vsz
    2 days ago






  • 8





    @DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

    – Acccumulation
    2 days ago














  • 19





    This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

    – Robert Columbia
    Feb 26 at 18:04








  • 10





    That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

    – Dan Fox
    Feb 26 at 20:26






  • 58





    Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

    – tomasz
    Feb 26 at 22:34






  • 14





    @tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

    – vsz
    2 days ago






  • 8





    @DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

    – Acccumulation
    2 days ago








19




19





This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

– Robert Columbia
Feb 26 at 18:04







This is a great question. It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route"). Does this sound right?

– Robert Columbia
Feb 26 at 18:04






10




10





That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

– Dan Fox
Feb 26 at 20:26





That the provenance of a source actually used be questionable in no way makes it anything other than completely unethical to fail to cite the source that has been used. This seems entirely obvious.

– Dan Fox
Feb 26 at 20:26




58




58





Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

– tomasz
Feb 26 at 22:34





Note that illegal and unethical are not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, many academics (also on this site) do not consider illegal access to articles behind paywall to be at all unethical.

– tomasz
Feb 26 at 22:34




14




14





@tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

– vsz
2 days ago





@tomasz : also, in many jurisdictions, it's not the downloading is what is illegal (or at least enforceably illegal), but the uploading to such sites.

– vsz
2 days ago




8




8





@DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

– Acccumulation
2 days ago





@DanFox You certainly didn't fail to avoid omitting double negatives there.

– Acccumulation
2 days ago










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















119















  1. Nobody will know how you have gained access to the article. Feel free to cite articles found via whatever sources.


  2. It might not even be illegal to download content from the website; check your local laws and Berne convention (if your country is signed up) to be sure. In any case, this is unlikely to affect your reputation in any way.


  3. Remember to cite the source appropriately; a journal or a book, not a pirate website or any other medium. The pirate website is usually not the publisher. You do not cite the university that has bought access to research (probably funded by public sources and peer reviewed by academicians funded by public sources), or the colleguage who shows you an article, or the library that contained a copy of the article; these all have the same role as pirate website.


  4. You might not want to be vocal about using such a website. Some people still see it as ethically questionable. That said, using various pirate websites is increasingly common, and the status of many academic publishers among academians seems to have taken some hits, so many researchers will not care about how you get your articles.


  5. You also have the ethics tag on the question. The ethics of pirating digital material are a polarized subject. You might want to do your own research here, or ask a new question for what the main arguments for both sides are, if it has not been asked already. Some people say that pirating material is analogous to physical theft, while others say that intellectual monopoly laws are bad and breaking them creates more good than ill. (I happen to think the laws are far too strong and harm humanity, and should be weakened substantially or entirely removed.) I strongly suggest reading on the matter until you have found strong statements of both points of view to come to an informed decision.







share|improve this answer





















  • 36





    Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

    – anonymous
    Feb 26 at 16:14






  • 2





    @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

    – tomasz
    Feb 26 at 22:37








  • 3





    @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

    – Tasos Papastylianou
    2 days ago






  • 1





    The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

    – dwizum
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

    – Tommi Brander
    yesterday



















28














If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need for research just by visiting your university's library and asking for a copy of the article. This is nearly always available to you. If you are grant funded, then grant funds can probably be used to obtain the necessary papers if the university cannot get them. In the US, even my town library has been able to get me access to things just by asking and because they have developed relationships with other (university) libraries. Small universities can have formal relationships with large research universities to "borrow" books and articles.



Likewise, borrowing the resources of colleagues is permitted. If s/he has a legal copy s/he can print it. The printed copy can be loaned to you. There are no issues with this at all.



So, the situation you describe should be rare if you do a bit of legwork.



But if you cite something, cite a legal repository, not a website known to pirate academic work. You don't need to actually own a copy of a paper to cite it, but it is probably a mistake (for your reputation) to flaunt illegal or unethical access.



It probably isn't as difficult or as costly as you imagine to do the right thing.






share|improve this answer



















  • 17





    Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

    – guifa
    Feb 26 at 13:43






  • 6





    @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

    – guifa
    Feb 26 at 14:07






  • 5





    @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

    – Dave L Renfro
    2 days ago






  • 4





    If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

    – Federico Poloni
    2 days ago






  • 3





    @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

    – cbeleites
    2 days ago



















4














Would you incriminate yourself?



For some articles, the abstract is so clear and concise that it effectively says everything you need to know in order to cite it. I've previously been advised when writing abstracts for articles in paywall journals to make sure someone could cite the article without actually having it. Obviously, it's not an ideal situation, but it is very much possible to cite an article purely based on the abstract, which you would have access to without acquiring the article anyway.



In short, if I see someone cite an article and I somehow know that they have not paid for access to it, I'd assume they've cited it based on the abstract.






share|improve this answer



















  • 23





    I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

    – Jack Aidley
    Feb 26 at 15:00











  • We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

    – E. Rei
    2 days ago











  • @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

    – P. G.
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

    – kap
    yesterday






  • 1





    By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

    – holla
    yesterday



















2














First, you have to cite if something is relevant for your work! It has nothing to do with how you aquired the article, and even if you do not have the article, just know the abstract or one particular result that is relevent, cite it! (big insight after I worked in academia, seldomly the articles cited are also read in entirety).



By the way, in academia authors get NO money from their articles, it is all done for reputation in the scientific community; so by not citing you actually do more harm to the individual who wrote the article then by the act of downloading (where maybe just the publisher loses money). And by the way for scientific articles the system works a little bit different, it is seldom the case that an individual buys individual articles (and if they like to they are tredemnously expensive). They are either acquired by your library through subscription, by interlibrary loan (many libraries are connected by networks), given to you by the authors themselve (once I just got a copy from an article that is hard to get in person from the authors send by post after asking him at a conference), or nowadays by the way you asked for... I will not judge what is unethical here but after reading this (or being in academia for yourself some time) you might view it a little bit different...



So, if nothing works you usually end up not getting the article at all!



Sidenote, this is a little bit different for books as the authors get some money from them, not much in academia too. But for non-academic books where the authors have to life from the money it is definitely unethical, but this is an entirely different system. Do not judge and confuse it by that (which people might do here if they compare it to robbery, netflix etc...).



Also if you do not cite something relevant some reviewer of your article will probable notice and either point you to the literature, or if it is a well-known article might conclude that you have done a bad review of the literature yourself.






share|improve this answer































    1














    Robert Columbia's framing of the question:




    It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route").




    For discussion purposes, I'm going to go contrary to the accepted answer and say yes.



    First, if you're using ideas that are not your own, you definitely have to cite the source. Failure to do that is plagiarism. With respect to avoiding plagiarism, it doesn't matter where you got the ideas; credit is due.



    However, inaccurately citing where you got the source makes it harder for others to trace that back to the source.



    In some cases, the content posted to a pirate website looks like or maybe is labeled as a copy of the content from the original source, but in fact has different content.



    I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why an author cites X for assertion Y, when in some cases they were actually citing a hidden X' which differed from X on, among other things, assertion Y. I would have much appreciated if the author had included a citation like:




    J. Ixsom, P. Smiflich, and D. Seuss: "Methods for safely pipetting oxyflogated dexlahydrates at STP." 23rd Annual Conference on Unusual Chemistry (CUC '17) London. Retrieved Jan. 18, 2019 from https://authorsite.org/pdf/1234.56789.




    Then I have all the usual citation information about who published that and where, and in most cases I can go to that source and get it from them. In this case, the publisher gets an extra sale from the author having cited that work, regardless of how the author obtained it. However, if I can't find support for what's being asserted, I can then trace through to what the author actually looked at. If there's a difference, I can more quickly debug. I might see how the author was led astray and be able to resolve the issue another way. Without that link to what the author is actually citing, though, it's very hard to determine the basis for that assertion, and requiring that extra work is a negative impact caused by a difference between the source the author claimed and the source the author actually used.



    Also, note that content differences are not all malicious, and the "authoritative" record is not always better from a content perspective. Sometimes, authors posting a file on their own website, with the publisher's permission, will update those files (e.g. correcting a mistake in a formula) and then the formula being used in the citing article looks different than the one it's being cited for. (To authors: If you do this, please explicitly call it out as a correction.)



    Sometimes, the differences are honeypots intentionally inserted by publishers designed to get the message out that only official sites can be relied upon for accurate information.






    share|improve this answer

































      0














      Just cite the paper properly (e.g. take into account where the article was originally published), obviously don't cite Alexandra Elbakyan. Seriously, nobody cares and nobody can find out anyway. And the people who care have a very bad case of boy scout/teacher's pet disease. The editorial houses are rent-seeking rackets that profit from publicly funded research and hard labour of academics. And they still have the nerve to paywall it. Anyone that feels bad about avoiding that needs to do a deep reflection on their moral priorities.






      share|improve this answer































        -5















        can we cite [(possibly) illegally obtained] documents[?]




        Yes, but you might be incriminating yourself, if legal access isn't plausible.




        can editorial board know...if I'm using those articles?




        No. At least, not without collaboration.



        EDIT: I'm flabbergasted that a factual correct answer has four down votes. Especially as an answer that appeared afterwards, with essentially the same message is being up-voted. It makes be question why I bother helping people.






        share|improve this answer





















        • 17





          You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

          – Federico Poloni
          Feb 26 at 10:10






        • 8





          And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

          – E. Rei
          Feb 26 at 10:18






        • 9





          @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

          – David Richerby
          Feb 26 at 15:42






        • 7





          @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

          – Mason Wheeler
          Feb 26 at 19:31






        • 1





          @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

          – cbeleites
          2 days ago



















        -6














        You are asking the wrong question.



        The unethicalness occurred long before the question of attribution arose. The publishers of the papers placed a value on them.. and you, for whatever reason, chose to obtain the document from a thief rather than the publisher. Just because "everyone else" is doing it and it's "wink wink" accepted practice in no way makes the act of theft ethical. Everything that follows from that act is then tainted by the original act of thievery.



        So to recap...




        • Pirate steals from publisher.

        • You obtain copy of document from pirate, making you at best an accomplice and at worst a thief yourself.

        • Question of ethics regarding attribution of stolen documents in your own paper is really not a valid question at this point.






        share|improve this answer










        New contributor




        Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.
















        • 17





          And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

          – Tommi Brander
          2 days ago






        • 2





          Also, this does not really answer the question.

          – Tommi Brander
          2 days ago






        • 3





          This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

          – user2768
          yesterday






        • 1





          @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

          – Ruther Rendommeleigh
          yesterday










        protected by Alexandros yesterday



        Thank you for your interest in this question.
        Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



        Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














        8 Answers
        8






        active

        oldest

        votes








        8 Answers
        8






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        119















        1. Nobody will know how you have gained access to the article. Feel free to cite articles found via whatever sources.


        2. It might not even be illegal to download content from the website; check your local laws and Berne convention (if your country is signed up) to be sure. In any case, this is unlikely to affect your reputation in any way.


        3. Remember to cite the source appropriately; a journal or a book, not a pirate website or any other medium. The pirate website is usually not the publisher. You do not cite the university that has bought access to research (probably funded by public sources and peer reviewed by academicians funded by public sources), or the colleguage who shows you an article, or the library that contained a copy of the article; these all have the same role as pirate website.


        4. You might not want to be vocal about using such a website. Some people still see it as ethically questionable. That said, using various pirate websites is increasingly common, and the status of many academic publishers among academians seems to have taken some hits, so many researchers will not care about how you get your articles.


        5. You also have the ethics tag on the question. The ethics of pirating digital material are a polarized subject. You might want to do your own research here, or ask a new question for what the main arguments for both sides are, if it has not been asked already. Some people say that pirating material is analogous to physical theft, while others say that intellectual monopoly laws are bad and breaking them creates more good than ill. (I happen to think the laws are far too strong and harm humanity, and should be weakened substantially or entirely removed.) I strongly suggest reading on the matter until you have found strong statements of both points of view to come to an informed decision.







        share|improve this answer





















        • 36





          Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

          – anonymous
          Feb 26 at 16:14






        • 2





          @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

          – tomasz
          Feb 26 at 22:37








        • 3





          @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          2 days ago






        • 1





          The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

          – dwizum
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

          – Tommi Brander
          yesterday
















        119















        1. Nobody will know how you have gained access to the article. Feel free to cite articles found via whatever sources.


        2. It might not even be illegal to download content from the website; check your local laws and Berne convention (if your country is signed up) to be sure. In any case, this is unlikely to affect your reputation in any way.


        3. Remember to cite the source appropriately; a journal or a book, not a pirate website or any other medium. The pirate website is usually not the publisher. You do not cite the university that has bought access to research (probably funded by public sources and peer reviewed by academicians funded by public sources), or the colleguage who shows you an article, or the library that contained a copy of the article; these all have the same role as pirate website.


        4. You might not want to be vocal about using such a website. Some people still see it as ethically questionable. That said, using various pirate websites is increasingly common, and the status of many academic publishers among academians seems to have taken some hits, so many researchers will not care about how you get your articles.


        5. You also have the ethics tag on the question. The ethics of pirating digital material are a polarized subject. You might want to do your own research here, or ask a new question for what the main arguments for both sides are, if it has not been asked already. Some people say that pirating material is analogous to physical theft, while others say that intellectual monopoly laws are bad and breaking them creates more good than ill. (I happen to think the laws are far too strong and harm humanity, and should be weakened substantially or entirely removed.) I strongly suggest reading on the matter until you have found strong statements of both points of view to come to an informed decision.







        share|improve this answer





















        • 36





          Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

          – anonymous
          Feb 26 at 16:14






        • 2





          @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

          – tomasz
          Feb 26 at 22:37








        • 3





          @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          2 days ago






        • 1





          The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

          – dwizum
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

          – Tommi Brander
          yesterday














        119












        119








        119








        1. Nobody will know how you have gained access to the article. Feel free to cite articles found via whatever sources.


        2. It might not even be illegal to download content from the website; check your local laws and Berne convention (if your country is signed up) to be sure. In any case, this is unlikely to affect your reputation in any way.


        3. Remember to cite the source appropriately; a journal or a book, not a pirate website or any other medium. The pirate website is usually not the publisher. You do not cite the university that has bought access to research (probably funded by public sources and peer reviewed by academicians funded by public sources), or the colleguage who shows you an article, or the library that contained a copy of the article; these all have the same role as pirate website.


        4. You might not want to be vocal about using such a website. Some people still see it as ethically questionable. That said, using various pirate websites is increasingly common, and the status of many academic publishers among academians seems to have taken some hits, so many researchers will not care about how you get your articles.


        5. You also have the ethics tag on the question. The ethics of pirating digital material are a polarized subject. You might want to do your own research here, or ask a new question for what the main arguments for both sides are, if it has not been asked already. Some people say that pirating material is analogous to physical theft, while others say that intellectual monopoly laws are bad and breaking them creates more good than ill. (I happen to think the laws are far too strong and harm humanity, and should be weakened substantially or entirely removed.) I strongly suggest reading on the matter until you have found strong statements of both points of view to come to an informed decision.







        share|improve this answer
















        1. Nobody will know how you have gained access to the article. Feel free to cite articles found via whatever sources.


        2. It might not even be illegal to download content from the website; check your local laws and Berne convention (if your country is signed up) to be sure. In any case, this is unlikely to affect your reputation in any way.


        3. Remember to cite the source appropriately; a journal or a book, not a pirate website or any other medium. The pirate website is usually not the publisher. You do not cite the university that has bought access to research (probably funded by public sources and peer reviewed by academicians funded by public sources), or the colleguage who shows you an article, or the library that contained a copy of the article; these all have the same role as pirate website.


        4. You might not want to be vocal about using such a website. Some people still see it as ethically questionable. That said, using various pirate websites is increasingly common, and the status of many academic publishers among academians seems to have taken some hits, so many researchers will not care about how you get your articles.


        5. You also have the ethics tag on the question. The ethics of pirating digital material are a polarized subject. You might want to do your own research here, or ask a new question for what the main arguments for both sides are, if it has not been asked already. Some people say that pirating material is analogous to physical theft, while others say that intellectual monopoly laws are bad and breaking them creates more good than ill. (I happen to think the laws are far too strong and harm humanity, and should be weakened substantially or entirely removed.) I strongly suggest reading on the matter until you have found strong statements of both points of view to come to an informed decision.








        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday

























        answered Feb 26 at 13:53









        Tommi BranderTommi Brander

        4,33321332




        4,33321332








        • 36





          Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

          – anonymous
          Feb 26 at 16:14






        • 2





          @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

          – tomasz
          Feb 26 at 22:37








        • 3





          @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          2 days ago






        • 1





          The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

          – dwizum
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

          – Tommi Brander
          yesterday














        • 36





          Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

          – anonymous
          Feb 26 at 16:14






        • 2





          @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

          – tomasz
          Feb 26 at 22:37








        • 3





          @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

          – Tasos Papastylianou
          2 days ago






        • 1





          The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

          – dwizum
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

          – Tommi Brander
          yesterday








        36




        36





        Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

        – anonymous
        Feb 26 at 16:14





        Another point is that some journals allow authors to self-archive and embargo periods are variable, so depending on the age of the article and the author, the pirate site might just be hosting a copy that is available elsewhere.

        – anonymous
        Feb 26 at 16:14




        2




        2





        @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

        – tomasz
        Feb 26 at 22:37







        @anonymous: Even in this case, you should still check the published paper -- pirated or not -- to make sure that you are citing correctly. For example, it is possible to have the numbering of theorems slightly changed in the published version of a math paper. Also sometimes authors might make some changes in the review which they do not bother to (or are not allowed to) propagate to preprint servers.

        – tomasz
        Feb 26 at 22:37






        3




        3





        @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

        – Tasos Papastylianou
        2 days ago





        @dwizum that's not what he's saying. He's saying the source is irrelevant to the citation. So in your analogy, if you paid into someone's bank account via bank transfer or via hacking, from the point of view of the payee there was no ill. The hacking is still an offence but the payee has nothing to do with it. Similarly, the cited paper is cited legitimately (and appropriately), the fact you gained access to it from an illegal source does not undermine your citation, and is not something that should be mentioned in any way. The fact you should not perform illegal acts is a different issue.

        – Tasos Papastylianou
        2 days ago




        1




        1





        The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

        – dwizum
        2 days ago





        The "separate" issue of having obtained the material illegally is the literal question the OP asked. Dismissing it because "no one will know" seems to be dismissing the actual question at hand. If you're arguing that the citation is okay, then claiming it's okay specifically because no one will know about the illegality of how you obtained it seems like an weak argument at best, and an incorrect one at worst: If someone asks "Is X okay?" and the answer is, "no one will know, so it's okay" how is that a legitimate answer? For the record, I think the rest of this answer is great.

        – dwizum
        2 days ago




        1




        1





        @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

        – Tommi Brander
        yesterday





        @dwizum Because that answers the main question, which is the last paragraph in the question body.

        – Tommi Brander
        yesterday











        28














        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need for research just by visiting your university's library and asking for a copy of the article. This is nearly always available to you. If you are grant funded, then grant funds can probably be used to obtain the necessary papers if the university cannot get them. In the US, even my town library has been able to get me access to things just by asking and because they have developed relationships with other (university) libraries. Small universities can have formal relationships with large research universities to "borrow" books and articles.



        Likewise, borrowing the resources of colleagues is permitted. If s/he has a legal copy s/he can print it. The printed copy can be loaned to you. There are no issues with this at all.



        So, the situation you describe should be rare if you do a bit of legwork.



        But if you cite something, cite a legal repository, not a website known to pirate academic work. You don't need to actually own a copy of a paper to cite it, but it is probably a mistake (for your reputation) to flaunt illegal or unethical access.



        It probably isn't as difficult or as costly as you imagine to do the right thing.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 17





          Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 13:43






        • 6





          @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 14:07






        • 5





          @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

          – Dave L Renfro
          2 days ago






        • 4





          If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago






        • 3





          @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

          – cbeleites
          2 days ago
















        28














        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need for research just by visiting your university's library and asking for a copy of the article. This is nearly always available to you. If you are grant funded, then grant funds can probably be used to obtain the necessary papers if the university cannot get them. In the US, even my town library has been able to get me access to things just by asking and because they have developed relationships with other (university) libraries. Small universities can have formal relationships with large research universities to "borrow" books and articles.



        Likewise, borrowing the resources of colleagues is permitted. If s/he has a legal copy s/he can print it. The printed copy can be loaned to you. There are no issues with this at all.



        So, the situation you describe should be rare if you do a bit of legwork.



        But if you cite something, cite a legal repository, not a website known to pirate academic work. You don't need to actually own a copy of a paper to cite it, but it is probably a mistake (for your reputation) to flaunt illegal or unethical access.



        It probably isn't as difficult or as costly as you imagine to do the right thing.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 17





          Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 13:43






        • 6





          @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 14:07






        • 5





          @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

          – Dave L Renfro
          2 days ago






        • 4





          If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago






        • 3





          @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

          – cbeleites
          2 days ago














        28












        28








        28







        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need for research just by visiting your university's library and asking for a copy of the article. This is nearly always available to you. If you are grant funded, then grant funds can probably be used to obtain the necessary papers if the university cannot get them. In the US, even my town library has been able to get me access to things just by asking and because they have developed relationships with other (university) libraries. Small universities can have formal relationships with large research universities to "borrow" books and articles.



        Likewise, borrowing the resources of colleagues is permitted. If s/he has a legal copy s/he can print it. The printed copy can be loaned to you. There are no issues with this at all.



        So, the situation you describe should be rare if you do a bit of legwork.



        But if you cite something, cite a legal repository, not a website known to pirate academic work. You don't need to actually own a copy of a paper to cite it, but it is probably a mistake (for your reputation) to flaunt illegal or unethical access.



        It probably isn't as difficult or as costly as you imagine to do the right thing.






        share|improve this answer













        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need for research just by visiting your university's library and asking for a copy of the article. This is nearly always available to you. If you are grant funded, then grant funds can probably be used to obtain the necessary papers if the university cannot get them. In the US, even my town library has been able to get me access to things just by asking and because they have developed relationships with other (university) libraries. Small universities can have formal relationships with large research universities to "borrow" books and articles.



        Likewise, borrowing the resources of colleagues is permitted. If s/he has a legal copy s/he can print it. The printed copy can be loaned to you. There are no issues with this at all.



        So, the situation you describe should be rare if you do a bit of legwork.



        But if you cite something, cite a legal repository, not a website known to pirate academic work. You don't need to actually own a copy of a paper to cite it, but it is probably a mistake (for your reputation) to flaunt illegal or unethical access.



        It probably isn't as difficult or as costly as you imagine to do the right thing.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Feb 26 at 13:22









        BuffyBuffy

        49.5k13162244




        49.5k13162244








        • 17





          Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 13:43






        • 6





          @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 14:07






        • 5





          @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

          – Dave L Renfro
          2 days ago






        • 4





          If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago






        • 3





          @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

          – cbeleites
          2 days ago














        • 17





          Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 13:43






        • 6





          @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

          – guifa
          Feb 26 at 14:07






        • 5





          @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

          – Dave L Renfro
          2 days ago






        • 4





          If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago






        • 3





          @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

          – cbeleites
          2 days ago








        17




        17





        Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

        – guifa
        Feb 26 at 13:43





        Or just don't cite the repository at all. I mean, if I have a paper copy.of the journal vs a scanned copy I get from another library vs a publisher-provided PDF and all are identical, the repository shouldn't matter and many (most?) style manuals don't require you to cite the exact location you obtained the copy except for rare one-of-a-kind works like medieval manuscripts, etc. (Although MLA started so in protest I've decided my next paper I'm going to cite every library involved in an ILL transaction to show how stupid it is)

        – guifa
        Feb 26 at 13:43




        6




        6





        @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

        – guifa
        Feb 26 at 14:07





        @Anyon MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR we're supposed to cite JSTOR along with the article. It's the same article regardless, and most people just happily pretend they got it on paper to avoid doing it :-) I'm jus planning on taking it to the other extreme because to me a library is no different than JSTOR

        – guifa
        Feb 26 at 14:07




        5




        5





        @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

        – Dave L Renfro
        2 days ago





        @guifa: MLA8 wants us to specify the "container" so if we got an article from JSTOR --- I don't know how that would apply to me (and I don't really care either) because I have literally tens of thousands of photocopied papers and paper preprints obtained since the mid 1980s (arguably the early 1960s if you count the preprint archive I received from a well known researcher in my field in the mid 1990s), from many dozens of libraries, and other than an occasional library stamp on a photocopied page or remembering where I got the paper from, I would have no way of knowing. (continued)

        – Dave L Renfro
        2 days ago




        4




        4





        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

        – Federico Poloni
        2 days ago





        If you are at a reputable university you can probably get legal access to nearly everything you need unless that university is in Germany, Sweden, Peru or Taiwan.

        – Federico Poloni
        2 days ago




        3




        3





        @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

        – cbeleites
        2 days ago





        @FedericoPoloni: at least Germany isn't as cut off as that News article suggests. I'm currently associated with an institution that doesn't have Elsevier access any more since January. However, there's an inter-library catalogue that shows which other libraries have a journal (example: zdb-katalog.de/title.xhtml?idn=020659016&vol=2019). In addition, the TIB (≈ national library for technical literature) even has a paper copy. All in all, it's not as convenient as it was, but our library will still get Elsevier papers I ask for via inter-library loan.

        – cbeleites
        2 days ago











        4














        Would you incriminate yourself?



        For some articles, the abstract is so clear and concise that it effectively says everything you need to know in order to cite it. I've previously been advised when writing abstracts for articles in paywall journals to make sure someone could cite the article without actually having it. Obviously, it's not an ideal situation, but it is very much possible to cite an article purely based on the abstract, which you would have access to without acquiring the article anyway.



        In short, if I see someone cite an article and I somehow know that they have not paid for access to it, I'd assume they've cited it based on the abstract.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 23





          I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

          – Jack Aidley
          Feb 26 at 15:00











        • We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

          – E. Rei
          2 days ago











        • @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

          – P. G.
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

          – kap
          yesterday






        • 1





          By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

          – holla
          yesterday
















        4














        Would you incriminate yourself?



        For some articles, the abstract is so clear and concise that it effectively says everything you need to know in order to cite it. I've previously been advised when writing abstracts for articles in paywall journals to make sure someone could cite the article without actually having it. Obviously, it's not an ideal situation, but it is very much possible to cite an article purely based on the abstract, which you would have access to without acquiring the article anyway.



        In short, if I see someone cite an article and I somehow know that they have not paid for access to it, I'd assume they've cited it based on the abstract.






        share|improve this answer



















        • 23





          I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

          – Jack Aidley
          Feb 26 at 15:00











        • We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

          – E. Rei
          2 days ago











        • @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

          – P. G.
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

          – kap
          yesterday






        • 1





          By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

          – holla
          yesterday














        4












        4








        4







        Would you incriminate yourself?



        For some articles, the abstract is so clear and concise that it effectively says everything you need to know in order to cite it. I've previously been advised when writing abstracts for articles in paywall journals to make sure someone could cite the article without actually having it. Obviously, it's not an ideal situation, but it is very much possible to cite an article purely based on the abstract, which you would have access to without acquiring the article anyway.



        In short, if I see someone cite an article and I somehow know that they have not paid for access to it, I'd assume they've cited it based on the abstract.






        share|improve this answer













        Would you incriminate yourself?



        For some articles, the abstract is so clear and concise that it effectively says everything you need to know in order to cite it. I've previously been advised when writing abstracts for articles in paywall journals to make sure someone could cite the article without actually having it. Obviously, it's not an ideal situation, but it is very much possible to cite an article purely based on the abstract, which you would have access to without acquiring the article anyway.



        In short, if I see someone cite an article and I somehow know that they have not paid for access to it, I'd assume they've cited it based on the abstract.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Feb 26 at 9:59









        E. ReiE. Rei

        878214




        878214








        • 23





          I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

          – Jack Aidley
          Feb 26 at 15:00











        • We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

          – E. Rei
          2 days ago











        • @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

          – P. G.
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

          – kap
          yesterday






        • 1





          By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

          – holla
          yesterday














        • 23





          I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

          – Jack Aidley
          Feb 26 at 15:00











        • We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

          – E. Rei
          2 days ago











        • @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

          – P. G.
          2 days ago






        • 1





          @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

          – kap
          yesterday






        • 1





          By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

          – holla
          yesterday








        23




        23





        I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

        – Jack Aidley
        Feb 26 at 15:00





        I would consider citing based only an abstract to be extremely bad practice; bordering on a mild form of academic malpractice. Yes, I know it happens, but that does not mean we should so casually accept it.

        – Jack Aidley
        Feb 26 at 15:00













        We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

        – E. Rei
        2 days ago





        We're on a thread talking about illegal web sharing, everything here is bad practice. The point I was trying to make was that no one could distinguish this form of bad practice (illegal web sharing) from another form of perfectly legal bad practice (citing from an abstract).

        – E. Rei
        2 days ago













        @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

        – P. G.
        2 days ago





        @JackAidley That's right. But if you consider that there are people who will cite sources just because someone else has cited them, it is not that bad.

        – P. G.
        2 days ago




        1




        1





        @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

        – kap
        yesterday





        @E.Rei there is a difference: using illegal web sharing might be bad practice from copyright/legal point of view. Citing based on abstracts is academic malpractice.

        – kap
        yesterday




        1




        1





        By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

        – holla
        yesterday





        By that logic, why should anyone citing a paper read more than only the abstract?

        – holla
        yesterday











        2














        First, you have to cite if something is relevant for your work! It has nothing to do with how you aquired the article, and even if you do not have the article, just know the abstract or one particular result that is relevent, cite it! (big insight after I worked in academia, seldomly the articles cited are also read in entirety).



        By the way, in academia authors get NO money from their articles, it is all done for reputation in the scientific community; so by not citing you actually do more harm to the individual who wrote the article then by the act of downloading (where maybe just the publisher loses money). And by the way for scientific articles the system works a little bit different, it is seldom the case that an individual buys individual articles (and if they like to they are tredemnously expensive). They are either acquired by your library through subscription, by interlibrary loan (many libraries are connected by networks), given to you by the authors themselve (once I just got a copy from an article that is hard to get in person from the authors send by post after asking him at a conference), or nowadays by the way you asked for... I will not judge what is unethical here but after reading this (or being in academia for yourself some time) you might view it a little bit different...



        So, if nothing works you usually end up not getting the article at all!



        Sidenote, this is a little bit different for books as the authors get some money from them, not much in academia too. But for non-academic books where the authors have to life from the money it is definitely unethical, but this is an entirely different system. Do not judge and confuse it by that (which people might do here if they compare it to robbery, netflix etc...).



        Also if you do not cite something relevant some reviewer of your article will probable notice and either point you to the literature, or if it is a well-known article might conclude that you have done a bad review of the literature yourself.






        share|improve this answer




























          2














          First, you have to cite if something is relevant for your work! It has nothing to do with how you aquired the article, and even if you do not have the article, just know the abstract or one particular result that is relevent, cite it! (big insight after I worked in academia, seldomly the articles cited are also read in entirety).



          By the way, in academia authors get NO money from their articles, it is all done for reputation in the scientific community; so by not citing you actually do more harm to the individual who wrote the article then by the act of downloading (where maybe just the publisher loses money). And by the way for scientific articles the system works a little bit different, it is seldom the case that an individual buys individual articles (and if they like to they are tredemnously expensive). They are either acquired by your library through subscription, by interlibrary loan (many libraries are connected by networks), given to you by the authors themselve (once I just got a copy from an article that is hard to get in person from the authors send by post after asking him at a conference), or nowadays by the way you asked for... I will not judge what is unethical here but after reading this (or being in academia for yourself some time) you might view it a little bit different...



          So, if nothing works you usually end up not getting the article at all!



          Sidenote, this is a little bit different for books as the authors get some money from them, not much in academia too. But for non-academic books where the authors have to life from the money it is definitely unethical, but this is an entirely different system. Do not judge and confuse it by that (which people might do here if they compare it to robbery, netflix etc...).



          Also if you do not cite something relevant some reviewer of your article will probable notice and either point you to the literature, or if it is a well-known article might conclude that you have done a bad review of the literature yourself.






          share|improve this answer


























            2












            2








            2







            First, you have to cite if something is relevant for your work! It has nothing to do with how you aquired the article, and even if you do not have the article, just know the abstract or one particular result that is relevent, cite it! (big insight after I worked in academia, seldomly the articles cited are also read in entirety).



            By the way, in academia authors get NO money from their articles, it is all done for reputation in the scientific community; so by not citing you actually do more harm to the individual who wrote the article then by the act of downloading (where maybe just the publisher loses money). And by the way for scientific articles the system works a little bit different, it is seldom the case that an individual buys individual articles (and if they like to they are tredemnously expensive). They are either acquired by your library through subscription, by interlibrary loan (many libraries are connected by networks), given to you by the authors themselve (once I just got a copy from an article that is hard to get in person from the authors send by post after asking him at a conference), or nowadays by the way you asked for... I will not judge what is unethical here but after reading this (or being in academia for yourself some time) you might view it a little bit different...



            So, if nothing works you usually end up not getting the article at all!



            Sidenote, this is a little bit different for books as the authors get some money from them, not much in academia too. But for non-academic books where the authors have to life from the money it is definitely unethical, but this is an entirely different system. Do not judge and confuse it by that (which people might do here if they compare it to robbery, netflix etc...).



            Also if you do not cite something relevant some reviewer of your article will probable notice and either point you to the literature, or if it is a well-known article might conclude that you have done a bad review of the literature yourself.






            share|improve this answer













            First, you have to cite if something is relevant for your work! It has nothing to do with how you aquired the article, and even if you do not have the article, just know the abstract or one particular result that is relevent, cite it! (big insight after I worked in academia, seldomly the articles cited are also read in entirety).



            By the way, in academia authors get NO money from their articles, it is all done for reputation in the scientific community; so by not citing you actually do more harm to the individual who wrote the article then by the act of downloading (where maybe just the publisher loses money). And by the way for scientific articles the system works a little bit different, it is seldom the case that an individual buys individual articles (and if they like to they are tredemnously expensive). They are either acquired by your library through subscription, by interlibrary loan (many libraries are connected by networks), given to you by the authors themselve (once I just got a copy from an article that is hard to get in person from the authors send by post after asking him at a conference), or nowadays by the way you asked for... I will not judge what is unethical here but after reading this (or being in academia for yourself some time) you might view it a little bit different...



            So, if nothing works you usually end up not getting the article at all!



            Sidenote, this is a little bit different for books as the authors get some money from them, not much in academia too. But for non-academic books where the authors have to life from the money it is definitely unethical, but this is an entirely different system. Do not judge and confuse it by that (which people might do here if they compare it to robbery, netflix etc...).



            Also if you do not cite something relevant some reviewer of your article will probable notice and either point you to the literature, or if it is a well-known article might conclude that you have done a bad review of the literature yourself.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            StefanHStefanH

            1666




            1666























                1














                Robert Columbia's framing of the question:




                It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route").




                For discussion purposes, I'm going to go contrary to the accepted answer and say yes.



                First, if you're using ideas that are not your own, you definitely have to cite the source. Failure to do that is plagiarism. With respect to avoiding plagiarism, it doesn't matter where you got the ideas; credit is due.



                However, inaccurately citing where you got the source makes it harder for others to trace that back to the source.



                In some cases, the content posted to a pirate website looks like or maybe is labeled as a copy of the content from the original source, but in fact has different content.



                I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why an author cites X for assertion Y, when in some cases they were actually citing a hidden X' which differed from X on, among other things, assertion Y. I would have much appreciated if the author had included a citation like:




                J. Ixsom, P. Smiflich, and D. Seuss: "Methods for safely pipetting oxyflogated dexlahydrates at STP." 23rd Annual Conference on Unusual Chemistry (CUC '17) London. Retrieved Jan. 18, 2019 from https://authorsite.org/pdf/1234.56789.




                Then I have all the usual citation information about who published that and where, and in most cases I can go to that source and get it from them. In this case, the publisher gets an extra sale from the author having cited that work, regardless of how the author obtained it. However, if I can't find support for what's being asserted, I can then trace through to what the author actually looked at. If there's a difference, I can more quickly debug. I might see how the author was led astray and be able to resolve the issue another way. Without that link to what the author is actually citing, though, it's very hard to determine the basis for that assertion, and requiring that extra work is a negative impact caused by a difference between the source the author claimed and the source the author actually used.



                Also, note that content differences are not all malicious, and the "authoritative" record is not always better from a content perspective. Sometimes, authors posting a file on their own website, with the publisher's permission, will update those files (e.g. correcting a mistake in a formula) and then the formula being used in the citing article looks different than the one it's being cited for. (To authors: If you do this, please explicitly call it out as a correction.)



                Sometimes, the differences are honeypots intentionally inserted by publishers designed to get the message out that only official sites can be relied upon for accurate information.






                share|improve this answer






























                  1














                  Robert Columbia's framing of the question:




                  It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route").




                  For discussion purposes, I'm going to go contrary to the accepted answer and say yes.



                  First, if you're using ideas that are not your own, you definitely have to cite the source. Failure to do that is plagiarism. With respect to avoiding plagiarism, it doesn't matter where you got the ideas; credit is due.



                  However, inaccurately citing where you got the source makes it harder for others to trace that back to the source.



                  In some cases, the content posted to a pirate website looks like or maybe is labeled as a copy of the content from the original source, but in fact has different content.



                  I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why an author cites X for assertion Y, when in some cases they were actually citing a hidden X' which differed from X on, among other things, assertion Y. I would have much appreciated if the author had included a citation like:




                  J. Ixsom, P. Smiflich, and D. Seuss: "Methods for safely pipetting oxyflogated dexlahydrates at STP." 23rd Annual Conference on Unusual Chemistry (CUC '17) London. Retrieved Jan. 18, 2019 from https://authorsite.org/pdf/1234.56789.




                  Then I have all the usual citation information about who published that and where, and in most cases I can go to that source and get it from them. In this case, the publisher gets an extra sale from the author having cited that work, regardless of how the author obtained it. However, if I can't find support for what's being asserted, I can then trace through to what the author actually looked at. If there's a difference, I can more quickly debug. I might see how the author was led astray and be able to resolve the issue another way. Without that link to what the author is actually citing, though, it's very hard to determine the basis for that assertion, and requiring that extra work is a negative impact caused by a difference between the source the author claimed and the source the author actually used.



                  Also, note that content differences are not all malicious, and the "authoritative" record is not always better from a content perspective. Sometimes, authors posting a file on their own website, with the publisher's permission, will update those files (e.g. correcting a mistake in a formula) and then the formula being used in the citing article looks different than the one it's being cited for. (To authors: If you do this, please explicitly call it out as a correction.)



                  Sometimes, the differences are honeypots intentionally inserted by publishers designed to get the message out that only official sites can be relied upon for accurate information.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    Robert Columbia's framing of the question:




                    It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route").




                    For discussion purposes, I'm going to go contrary to the accepted answer and say yes.



                    First, if you're using ideas that are not your own, you definitely have to cite the source. Failure to do that is plagiarism. With respect to avoiding plagiarism, it doesn't matter where you got the ideas; credit is due.



                    However, inaccurately citing where you got the source makes it harder for others to trace that back to the source.



                    In some cases, the content posted to a pirate website looks like or maybe is labeled as a copy of the content from the original source, but in fact has different content.



                    I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why an author cites X for assertion Y, when in some cases they were actually citing a hidden X' which differed from X on, among other things, assertion Y. I would have much appreciated if the author had included a citation like:




                    J. Ixsom, P. Smiflich, and D. Seuss: "Methods for safely pipetting oxyflogated dexlahydrates at STP." 23rd Annual Conference on Unusual Chemistry (CUC '17) London. Retrieved Jan. 18, 2019 from https://authorsite.org/pdf/1234.56789.




                    Then I have all the usual citation information about who published that and where, and in most cases I can go to that source and get it from them. In this case, the publisher gets an extra sale from the author having cited that work, regardless of how the author obtained it. However, if I can't find support for what's being asserted, I can then trace through to what the author actually looked at. If there's a difference, I can more quickly debug. I might see how the author was led astray and be able to resolve the issue another way. Without that link to what the author is actually citing, though, it's very hard to determine the basis for that assertion, and requiring that extra work is a negative impact caused by a difference between the source the author claimed and the source the author actually used.



                    Also, note that content differences are not all malicious, and the "authoritative" record is not always better from a content perspective. Sometimes, authors posting a file on their own website, with the publisher's permission, will update those files (e.g. correcting a mistake in a formula) and then the formula being used in the citing article looks different than the one it's being cited for. (To authors: If you do this, please explicitly call it out as a correction.)



                    Sometimes, the differences are honeypots intentionally inserted by publishers designed to get the message out that only official sites can be relied upon for accurate information.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Robert Columbia's framing of the question:




                    It seems that you are not asking about the ethics of downloading articles from questionable sites, but only the ethics afterwards - when the downloading is already a fait accompli, and the real question is whether citing said document counts as an additional unethical act above and beyond what you did when you downloaded it (e.g. "citing a document obtained through an unauthorized route").




                    For discussion purposes, I'm going to go contrary to the accepted answer and say yes.



                    First, if you're using ideas that are not your own, you definitely have to cite the source. Failure to do that is plagiarism. With respect to avoiding plagiarism, it doesn't matter where you got the ideas; credit is due.



                    However, inaccurately citing where you got the source makes it harder for others to trace that back to the source.



                    In some cases, the content posted to a pirate website looks like or maybe is labeled as a copy of the content from the original source, but in fact has different content.



                    I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why an author cites X for assertion Y, when in some cases they were actually citing a hidden X' which differed from X on, among other things, assertion Y. I would have much appreciated if the author had included a citation like:




                    J. Ixsom, P. Smiflich, and D. Seuss: "Methods for safely pipetting oxyflogated dexlahydrates at STP." 23rd Annual Conference on Unusual Chemistry (CUC '17) London. Retrieved Jan. 18, 2019 from https://authorsite.org/pdf/1234.56789.




                    Then I have all the usual citation information about who published that and where, and in most cases I can go to that source and get it from them. In this case, the publisher gets an extra sale from the author having cited that work, regardless of how the author obtained it. However, if I can't find support for what's being asserted, I can then trace through to what the author actually looked at. If there's a difference, I can more quickly debug. I might see how the author was led astray and be able to resolve the issue another way. Without that link to what the author is actually citing, though, it's very hard to determine the basis for that assertion, and requiring that extra work is a negative impact caused by a difference between the source the author claimed and the source the author actually used.



                    Also, note that content differences are not all malicious, and the "authoritative" record is not always better from a content perspective. Sometimes, authors posting a file on their own website, with the publisher's permission, will update those files (e.g. correcting a mistake in a formula) and then the formula being used in the citing article looks different than the one it's being cited for. (To authors: If you do this, please explicitly call it out as a correction.)



                    Sometimes, the differences are honeypots intentionally inserted by publishers designed to get the message out that only official sites can be relied upon for accurate information.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited yesterday

























                    answered yesterday









                    WBTWBT

                    3,15231031




                    3,15231031























                        0














                        Just cite the paper properly (e.g. take into account where the article was originally published), obviously don't cite Alexandra Elbakyan. Seriously, nobody cares and nobody can find out anyway. And the people who care have a very bad case of boy scout/teacher's pet disease. The editorial houses are rent-seeking rackets that profit from publicly funded research and hard labour of academics. And they still have the nerve to paywall it. Anyone that feels bad about avoiding that needs to do a deep reflection on their moral priorities.






                        share|improve this answer




























                          0














                          Just cite the paper properly (e.g. take into account where the article was originally published), obviously don't cite Alexandra Elbakyan. Seriously, nobody cares and nobody can find out anyway. And the people who care have a very bad case of boy scout/teacher's pet disease. The editorial houses are rent-seeking rackets that profit from publicly funded research and hard labour of academics. And they still have the nerve to paywall it. Anyone that feels bad about avoiding that needs to do a deep reflection on their moral priorities.






                          share|improve this answer


























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            Just cite the paper properly (e.g. take into account where the article was originally published), obviously don't cite Alexandra Elbakyan. Seriously, nobody cares and nobody can find out anyway. And the people who care have a very bad case of boy scout/teacher's pet disease. The editorial houses are rent-seeking rackets that profit from publicly funded research and hard labour of academics. And they still have the nerve to paywall it. Anyone that feels bad about avoiding that needs to do a deep reflection on their moral priorities.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Just cite the paper properly (e.g. take into account where the article was originally published), obviously don't cite Alexandra Elbakyan. Seriously, nobody cares and nobody can find out anyway. And the people who care have a very bad case of boy scout/teacher's pet disease. The editorial houses are rent-seeking rackets that profit from publicly funded research and hard labour of academics. And they still have the nerve to paywall it. Anyone that feels bad about avoiding that needs to do a deep reflection on their moral priorities.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 8 hours ago









                            mathdummymathdummy

                            1114




                            1114























                                -5















                                can we cite [(possibly) illegally obtained] documents[?]




                                Yes, but you might be incriminating yourself, if legal access isn't plausible.




                                can editorial board know...if I'm using those articles?




                                No. At least, not without collaboration.



                                EDIT: I'm flabbergasted that a factual correct answer has four down votes. Especially as an answer that appeared afterwards, with essentially the same message is being up-voted. It makes be question why I bother helping people.






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 17





                                  You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                  – Federico Poloni
                                  Feb 26 at 10:10






                                • 8





                                  And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                  – E. Rei
                                  Feb 26 at 10:18






                                • 9





                                  @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                  – David Richerby
                                  Feb 26 at 15:42






                                • 7





                                  @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                  – Mason Wheeler
                                  Feb 26 at 19:31






                                • 1





                                  @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                  – cbeleites
                                  2 days ago
















                                -5















                                can we cite [(possibly) illegally obtained] documents[?]




                                Yes, but you might be incriminating yourself, if legal access isn't plausible.




                                can editorial board know...if I'm using those articles?




                                No. At least, not without collaboration.



                                EDIT: I'm flabbergasted that a factual correct answer has four down votes. Especially as an answer that appeared afterwards, with essentially the same message is being up-voted. It makes be question why I bother helping people.






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • 17





                                  You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                  – Federico Poloni
                                  Feb 26 at 10:10






                                • 8





                                  And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                  – E. Rei
                                  Feb 26 at 10:18






                                • 9





                                  @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                  – David Richerby
                                  Feb 26 at 15:42






                                • 7





                                  @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                  – Mason Wheeler
                                  Feb 26 at 19:31






                                • 1





                                  @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                  – cbeleites
                                  2 days ago














                                -5












                                -5








                                -5








                                can we cite [(possibly) illegally obtained] documents[?]




                                Yes, but you might be incriminating yourself, if legal access isn't plausible.




                                can editorial board know...if I'm using those articles?




                                No. At least, not without collaboration.



                                EDIT: I'm flabbergasted that a factual correct answer has four down votes. Especially as an answer that appeared afterwards, with essentially the same message is being up-voted. It makes be question why I bother helping people.






                                share|improve this answer
















                                can we cite [(possibly) illegally obtained] documents[?]




                                Yes, but you might be incriminating yourself, if legal access isn't plausible.




                                can editorial board know...if I'm using those articles?




                                No. At least, not without collaboration.



                                EDIT: I'm flabbergasted that a factual correct answer has four down votes. Especially as an answer that appeared afterwards, with essentially the same message is being up-voted. It makes be question why I bother helping people.







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited 2 days ago

























                                answered Feb 26 at 9:45









                                user2768user2768

                                13.9k23657




                                13.9k23657








                                • 17





                                  You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                  – Federico Poloni
                                  Feb 26 at 10:10






                                • 8





                                  And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                  – E. Rei
                                  Feb 26 at 10:18






                                • 9





                                  @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                  – David Richerby
                                  Feb 26 at 15:42






                                • 7





                                  @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                  – Mason Wheeler
                                  Feb 26 at 19:31






                                • 1





                                  @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                  – cbeleites
                                  2 days ago














                                • 17





                                  You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                  – Federico Poloni
                                  Feb 26 at 10:10






                                • 8





                                  And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                  – E. Rei
                                  Feb 26 at 10:18






                                • 9





                                  @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                  – David Richerby
                                  Feb 26 at 15:42






                                • 7





                                  @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                  – Mason Wheeler
                                  Feb 26 at 19:31






                                • 1





                                  @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                  – cbeleites
                                  2 days ago








                                17




                                17





                                You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                – Federico Poloni
                                Feb 26 at 10:10





                                You don't have to demonstrate legal access, in general. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems.

                                – Federico Poloni
                                Feb 26 at 10:10




                                8




                                8





                                And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                – E. Rei
                                Feb 26 at 10:18





                                And as anyone that's ever marked undergraduate coursework will tell you, referencing an article is absolutely not proof that you've read it :)

                                – E. Rei
                                Feb 26 at 10:18




                                9




                                9





                                @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                – David Richerby
                                Feb 26 at 15:42





                                @user2768 The point is that you can't reasonably tell who has legal access to a published paper. Even if somebody is at a university that doesn't have a subscription to that journal, there are so many other legitimate ways that the person could get access to the article without leaving any kind of paper trail, that nobody is ever going to conclude "You must have accessed that illegally."

                                – David Richerby
                                Feb 26 at 15:42




                                7




                                7





                                @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                – Mason Wheeler
                                Feb 26 at 19:31





                                @FedericoPoloni "The burden of proof lies on the accuser, in most sane legal systems." This is true. Unfortunately, copyright enforcement goes well outside the bounds of sanity pretty much everywhere. If the requirement of the burden of proof being on the accuser were applied consistently, copyright-enforcement things such as DRM and the DMCA takedown system simply could not exist. But unfortunately, they do.

                                – Mason Wheeler
                                Feb 26 at 19:31




                                1




                                1





                                @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                – cbeleites
                                2 days ago





                                @user2768: why would any lies be necessary when reading a colleague's (physical) copy of a paper? Even loans of whole (paper) books are legal. Main side take-home message: there are typically several perfectly legal ways of obtaining a paper (maybe not as convenient as the pirate web page, though).

                                – cbeleites
                                2 days ago











                                -6














                                You are asking the wrong question.



                                The unethicalness occurred long before the question of attribution arose. The publishers of the papers placed a value on them.. and you, for whatever reason, chose to obtain the document from a thief rather than the publisher. Just because "everyone else" is doing it and it's "wink wink" accepted practice in no way makes the act of theft ethical. Everything that follows from that act is then tainted by the original act of thievery.



                                So to recap...




                                • Pirate steals from publisher.

                                • You obtain copy of document from pirate, making you at best an accomplice and at worst a thief yourself.

                                • Question of ethics regarding attribution of stolen documents in your own paper is really not a valid question at this point.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                • 17





                                  And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 2





                                  Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 3





                                  This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  2 days ago






                                • 1





                                  @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                  – user2768
                                  yesterday






                                • 1





                                  @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  yesterday
















                                -6














                                You are asking the wrong question.



                                The unethicalness occurred long before the question of attribution arose. The publishers of the papers placed a value on them.. and you, for whatever reason, chose to obtain the document from a thief rather than the publisher. Just because "everyone else" is doing it and it's "wink wink" accepted practice in no way makes the act of theft ethical. Everything that follows from that act is then tainted by the original act of thievery.



                                So to recap...




                                • Pirate steals from publisher.

                                • You obtain copy of document from pirate, making you at best an accomplice and at worst a thief yourself.

                                • Question of ethics regarding attribution of stolen documents in your own paper is really not a valid question at this point.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                • 17





                                  And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 2





                                  Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 3





                                  This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  2 days ago






                                • 1





                                  @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                  – user2768
                                  yesterday






                                • 1





                                  @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  yesterday














                                -6












                                -6








                                -6







                                You are asking the wrong question.



                                The unethicalness occurred long before the question of attribution arose. The publishers of the papers placed a value on them.. and you, for whatever reason, chose to obtain the document from a thief rather than the publisher. Just because "everyone else" is doing it and it's "wink wink" accepted practice in no way makes the act of theft ethical. Everything that follows from that act is then tainted by the original act of thievery.



                                So to recap...




                                • Pirate steals from publisher.

                                • You obtain copy of document from pirate, making you at best an accomplice and at worst a thief yourself.

                                • Question of ethics regarding attribution of stolen documents in your own paper is really not a valid question at this point.






                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.










                                You are asking the wrong question.



                                The unethicalness occurred long before the question of attribution arose. The publishers of the papers placed a value on them.. and you, for whatever reason, chose to obtain the document from a thief rather than the publisher. Just because "everyone else" is doing it and it's "wink wink" accepted practice in no way makes the act of theft ethical. Everything that follows from that act is then tainted by the original act of thievery.



                                So to recap...




                                • Pirate steals from publisher.

                                • You obtain copy of document from pirate, making you at best an accomplice and at worst a thief yourself.

                                • Question of ethics regarding attribution of stolen documents in your own paper is really not a valid question at this point.







                                share|improve this answer










                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited yesterday









                                FuzzyLeapfrog

                                3,8251939




                                3,8251939






                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                answered Feb 27 at 2:23









                                Sam AxeSam Axe

                                1131




                                1131




                                New contributor




                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                New contributor





                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                Sam Axe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.








                                • 17





                                  And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 2





                                  Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 3





                                  This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  2 days ago






                                • 1





                                  @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                  – user2768
                                  yesterday






                                • 1





                                  @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  yesterday














                                • 17





                                  And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 2





                                  Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                  – Tommi Brander
                                  2 days ago






                                • 3





                                  This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  2 days ago






                                • 1





                                  @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                  – user2768
                                  yesterday






                                • 1





                                  @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                  – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                  yesterday








                                17




                                17





                                And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                – Tommi Brander
                                2 days ago





                                And to offer the contrasting take: Pirates steal nothing, as no thing is lost by the publisher. They are breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws to create net benefit for the society. Intellectual monopoly laws are a way of restricting property rights of people for no good benefit, and in a largely unenforceable way, which is used as an arbitrary punishment mechanism for little benefit to anyone but lawyers and certain big rent-seeking companies.

                                – Tommi Brander
                                2 days ago




                                2




                                2





                                Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                – Tommi Brander
                                2 days ago





                                Also, this does not really answer the question.

                                – Tommi Brander
                                2 days ago




                                3




                                3





                                This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                2 days ago





                                This reads more like a criticism of the question than an answer. The OP already stated that they deem the act of publishing the documents unethical. Could you clarify in which way "is really not a valid question" provides a useful answer or at least a credible frame challenge?

                                – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                2 days ago




                                1




                                1





                                @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                – user2768
                                yesterday





                                @TommiBrander If we adopt your attitude (breaking ineffective and socially harmful laws is okay), then we are lawless. If you don't like the law, change it, don't break it.

                                – user2768
                                yesterday




                                1




                                1





                                @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                yesterday





                                @Sam Axe "The ethics of being a thief" doesn't seem on topic as an answer to this question, especially if you're, as you stated, not talking about IP or the question. If you think the question's invalid, I'd recommend that you comment and/or flag it.

                                – Ruther Rendommeleigh
                                yesterday





                                protected by Alexandros yesterday



                                Thank you for your interest in this question.
                                Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                                Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?



                                Popular posts from this blog

                                is 'sed' thread safeWhat should someone know about using Python scripts in the shell?Nexenta bash script uses...

                                How do i solve the “ No module named 'mlxtend' ” issue on Jupyter?

                                Pilgersdorf Inhaltsverzeichnis Geografie | Geschichte | Bevölkerungsentwicklung | Politik | Kultur...