Would the melodic leap of the opening phrase of Mozart's K545 be considered dissonant?Why does a melodic half...

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Would the melodic leap of the opening phrase of Mozart's K545 be considered dissonant?


Why does a melodic half step resolve on the higher note?What do you call the melodic pattern with 3 notes?How to find the most correct meter of a riff or phraseWhy do certain vocal melodies work in context when those same melodies would sound dissonant on instruments?Melodic Criticism - Exercise 3.16G, Laitz The Complete Musician 2nd EditionWhat is the ordering of modes (Ionian, Dorian, etc.) from least to most dissonant?













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The Complete Musician by Steven Laitz states that melodic intervals larger than a fifth are considered dissonant and should be avoided. It also states that two leaps of a third are fine, provided you change direction afterwards, which Mozart does.



In Mozart's Sonata K545, the opening melody of the Allegro (one of the simplest and most popular melodies of the period) runs 1-3-5-7-8-9-8. The opening phrase



By the definition given in The Complete Musician, would the jump from the high 5 (G) down to the 7 (B) be considered a melodic dissonance, at it forms a minor 6th? This seems crazy, as the melody sounds extremely natural to me (and, I imagine, everybody else).










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    The Complete Musician by Steven Laitz states that melodic intervals larger than a fifth are considered dissonant and should be avoided. It also states that two leaps of a third are fine, provided you change direction afterwards, which Mozart does.



    In Mozart's Sonata K545, the opening melody of the Allegro (one of the simplest and most popular melodies of the period) runs 1-3-5-7-8-9-8. The opening phrase



    By the definition given in The Complete Musician, would the jump from the high 5 (G) down to the 7 (B) be considered a melodic dissonance, at it forms a minor 6th? This seems crazy, as the melody sounds extremely natural to me (and, I imagine, everybody else).










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    october is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      2












      2








      2








      The Complete Musician by Steven Laitz states that melodic intervals larger than a fifth are considered dissonant and should be avoided. It also states that two leaps of a third are fine, provided you change direction afterwards, which Mozart does.



      In Mozart's Sonata K545, the opening melody of the Allegro (one of the simplest and most popular melodies of the period) runs 1-3-5-7-8-9-8. The opening phrase



      By the definition given in The Complete Musician, would the jump from the high 5 (G) down to the 7 (B) be considered a melodic dissonance, at it forms a minor 6th? This seems crazy, as the melody sounds extremely natural to me (and, I imagine, everybody else).










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      october is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      The Complete Musician by Steven Laitz states that melodic intervals larger than a fifth are considered dissonant and should be avoided. It also states that two leaps of a third are fine, provided you change direction afterwards, which Mozart does.



      In Mozart's Sonata K545, the opening melody of the Allegro (one of the simplest and most popular melodies of the period) runs 1-3-5-7-8-9-8. The opening phrase



      By the definition given in The Complete Musician, would the jump from the high 5 (G) down to the 7 (B) be considered a melodic dissonance, at it forms a minor 6th? This seems crazy, as the melody sounds extremely natural to me (and, I imagine, everybody else).







      melody counterpoint consonance-and-dissonance






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      october is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      edited 30 mins ago









      Richard

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          There are at least two explanations for why this leap is acceptable:




          1. First is the idea of "gap fill," also sometimes called "registral return" or the "post-skip reversal." In short, when there is a large leap, we can soften it by subsequently moving by step in the opposite direction. This is a Gestalt principle of good melodic design that can often explain instances of "rule breaking."

          2. Another concept is that the E and G in the first measure really just embellish the original C. As such, this isn't really a leap from G down to B, but rather just a simple step from the initial C down to B. This is a question of musical hierarchy: C is more important than the E or the G, so we therefore connect the larger-scale motion from C down to B, which is just a half step. Depending on what edition of the textbook you have, Laitz may address this concept in a section devoted to "compound melody."






          share|improve this answer

































            2














            It is traditional when teaching vocal writing to advise a preference for smaller intervals, which are easier to sing. A natural accent accrues to large intervals. The term melodic dissonance is sometimes used in connection to large intervals, the larger being more melodically dissonant.



            By your book's definition, yes this is a melodically dissonant leap.



            The advice to avoid such intervals is typical of advice to beginners not to break the rules until they're understood. Masters such as Mozart may do as they please, but if newcomers write melodies full of large leaps, they are likely to make an unsingable mess.



            This usage should not be confused with consonant or dissonant harmony, nor with any idea of what sounds pleasant or unpleasant. It is a perhaps unfortunate piggy-backing of existing terms.






            share|improve this answer































              0














              Could be that this rule in your textbook refers to the melody building of the Gregorian chant.



              In the early church music till the time Palestrina there were some rules about intervals in a melody like a major sixth or bigger were considered as not good for singing.





              share























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                3 Answers
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                3 Answers
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                active

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                1














                There are at least two explanations for why this leap is acceptable:




                1. First is the idea of "gap fill," also sometimes called "registral return" or the "post-skip reversal." In short, when there is a large leap, we can soften it by subsequently moving by step in the opposite direction. This is a Gestalt principle of good melodic design that can often explain instances of "rule breaking."

                2. Another concept is that the E and G in the first measure really just embellish the original C. As such, this isn't really a leap from G down to B, but rather just a simple step from the initial C down to B. This is a question of musical hierarchy: C is more important than the E or the G, so we therefore connect the larger-scale motion from C down to B, which is just a half step. Depending on what edition of the textbook you have, Laitz may address this concept in a section devoted to "compound melody."






                share|improve this answer






























                  1














                  There are at least two explanations for why this leap is acceptable:




                  1. First is the idea of "gap fill," also sometimes called "registral return" or the "post-skip reversal." In short, when there is a large leap, we can soften it by subsequently moving by step in the opposite direction. This is a Gestalt principle of good melodic design that can often explain instances of "rule breaking."

                  2. Another concept is that the E and G in the first measure really just embellish the original C. As such, this isn't really a leap from G down to B, but rather just a simple step from the initial C down to B. This is a question of musical hierarchy: C is more important than the E or the G, so we therefore connect the larger-scale motion from C down to B, which is just a half step. Depending on what edition of the textbook you have, Laitz may address this concept in a section devoted to "compound melody."






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    There are at least two explanations for why this leap is acceptable:




                    1. First is the idea of "gap fill," also sometimes called "registral return" or the "post-skip reversal." In short, when there is a large leap, we can soften it by subsequently moving by step in the opposite direction. This is a Gestalt principle of good melodic design that can often explain instances of "rule breaking."

                    2. Another concept is that the E and G in the first measure really just embellish the original C. As such, this isn't really a leap from G down to B, but rather just a simple step from the initial C down to B. This is a question of musical hierarchy: C is more important than the E or the G, so we therefore connect the larger-scale motion from C down to B, which is just a half step. Depending on what edition of the textbook you have, Laitz may address this concept in a section devoted to "compound melody."






                    share|improve this answer















                    There are at least two explanations for why this leap is acceptable:




                    1. First is the idea of "gap fill," also sometimes called "registral return" or the "post-skip reversal." In short, when there is a large leap, we can soften it by subsequently moving by step in the opposite direction. This is a Gestalt principle of good melodic design that can often explain instances of "rule breaking."

                    2. Another concept is that the E and G in the first measure really just embellish the original C. As such, this isn't really a leap from G down to B, but rather just a simple step from the initial C down to B. This is a question of musical hierarchy: C is more important than the E or the G, so we therefore connect the larger-scale motion from C down to B, which is just a half step. Depending on what edition of the textbook you have, Laitz may address this concept in a section devoted to "compound melody."







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 29 mins ago

























                    answered 37 mins ago









                    RichardRichard

                    42.1k693179




                    42.1k693179























                        2














                        It is traditional when teaching vocal writing to advise a preference for smaller intervals, which are easier to sing. A natural accent accrues to large intervals. The term melodic dissonance is sometimes used in connection to large intervals, the larger being more melodically dissonant.



                        By your book's definition, yes this is a melodically dissonant leap.



                        The advice to avoid such intervals is typical of advice to beginners not to break the rules until they're understood. Masters such as Mozart may do as they please, but if newcomers write melodies full of large leaps, they are likely to make an unsingable mess.



                        This usage should not be confused with consonant or dissonant harmony, nor with any idea of what sounds pleasant or unpleasant. It is a perhaps unfortunate piggy-backing of existing terms.






                        share|improve this answer




























                          2














                          It is traditional when teaching vocal writing to advise a preference for smaller intervals, which are easier to sing. A natural accent accrues to large intervals. The term melodic dissonance is sometimes used in connection to large intervals, the larger being more melodically dissonant.



                          By your book's definition, yes this is a melodically dissonant leap.



                          The advice to avoid such intervals is typical of advice to beginners not to break the rules until they're understood. Masters such as Mozart may do as they please, but if newcomers write melodies full of large leaps, they are likely to make an unsingable mess.



                          This usage should not be confused with consonant or dissonant harmony, nor with any idea of what sounds pleasant or unpleasant. It is a perhaps unfortunate piggy-backing of existing terms.






                          share|improve this answer


























                            2












                            2








                            2







                            It is traditional when teaching vocal writing to advise a preference for smaller intervals, which are easier to sing. A natural accent accrues to large intervals. The term melodic dissonance is sometimes used in connection to large intervals, the larger being more melodically dissonant.



                            By your book's definition, yes this is a melodically dissonant leap.



                            The advice to avoid such intervals is typical of advice to beginners not to break the rules until they're understood. Masters such as Mozart may do as they please, but if newcomers write melodies full of large leaps, they are likely to make an unsingable mess.



                            This usage should not be confused with consonant or dissonant harmony, nor with any idea of what sounds pleasant or unpleasant. It is a perhaps unfortunate piggy-backing of existing terms.






                            share|improve this answer













                            It is traditional when teaching vocal writing to advise a preference for smaller intervals, which are easier to sing. A natural accent accrues to large intervals. The term melodic dissonance is sometimes used in connection to large intervals, the larger being more melodically dissonant.



                            By your book's definition, yes this is a melodically dissonant leap.



                            The advice to avoid such intervals is typical of advice to beginners not to break the rules until they're understood. Masters such as Mozart may do as they please, but if newcomers write melodies full of large leaps, they are likely to make an unsingable mess.



                            This usage should not be confused with consonant or dissonant harmony, nor with any idea of what sounds pleasant or unpleasant. It is a perhaps unfortunate piggy-backing of existing terms.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered 35 mins ago









                            repletereplete

                            2,029514




                            2,029514























                                0














                                Could be that this rule in your textbook refers to the melody building of the Gregorian chant.



                                In the early church music till the time Palestrina there were some rules about intervals in a melody like a major sixth or bigger were considered as not good for singing.





                                share




























                                  0














                                  Could be that this rule in your textbook refers to the melody building of the Gregorian chant.



                                  In the early church music till the time Palestrina there were some rules about intervals in a melody like a major sixth or bigger were considered as not good for singing.





                                  share


























                                    0












                                    0








                                    0







                                    Could be that this rule in your textbook refers to the melody building of the Gregorian chant.



                                    In the early church music till the time Palestrina there were some rules about intervals in a melody like a major sixth or bigger were considered as not good for singing.





                                    share













                                    Could be that this rule in your textbook refers to the melody building of the Gregorian chant.



                                    In the early church music till the time Palestrina there were some rules about intervals in a melody like a major sixth or bigger were considered as not good for singing.






                                    share











                                    share


                                    share










                                    answered 4 mins ago









                                    Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

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